FnF Chain...

[Evil Vegeta]

There's literally no point to having that line for no reason. Tagoma called Gohan their "most dangerous enemy" without knowing he could transform because he was. I don't see how you seemingly have no issue with Beers physically checking Goku to automatically mean Freeza>Base Saiyans, yet you ignore a direct line from Tagoma saying Gohan is the most dangerous the Earth team because there are no feats.

They were shown to be fighting evenly and both punched each other in the face before getting to the top of the mountain. Gohan was winded for a few seconds and was immediately fine when Goku arrived. You're exaggerating.

 

[kriss-]

The feats displayed do not lead us to a consensus where Gohan's Base form HAS to be stronger then Organic Freeza, he achieved nothing other then annoying Tagoma and being tooled from Piccolo during their sparring session.

If one doesn't want Gohan to be stronger then Organic Freeza then one doesn't have to have him stronger since it does not contort the original story and three official sources in any way whatsoever.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Except Piccolo didn't tool anyone. Both punched each other in the face and stopped at the same time. Before that, they were exchanging attacks with no one gaining an upperhand.

If Gohan needing to catch his breath for 3 seconds means he was tooled, then you clearly don't know what it means.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo was fine while Gohan wasn't. There is a clear distinction here and suggests Piccolo is stronger, which contradicts your analogy in regards to what Tagoma said, proving you wrong. My consensus makes much more sense and is completely self consistent.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Again, Gohan was winded for 3 seconds and was immediately fine. Why are you exaggerating to prove a point? They were shown to be fighting equally.

 

[kriss-]

Gohan was clearly inferior which contradicts Tagoma's estimation, proving his statement 'He's the most dangerous', completely incorrect. Three official sources state Base Saiyans are inferior to Organic Freeza, so because I can dismiss your argument above, because it's clearly contradicted, I can then apply the statement from Beerus and determine that Gohan is definitely weaker then he was during the Boo Saga because of already mentioned points in addition to implications from Db Super.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Base Gohan fighting a non holding-back Piccolo dismisses the idea of 100% Freeza being stronger. Unless you can prove Freeza could stand up to a Piccolo vastly stronger than him, which you can't considering he can barely fight the weakest version of Super Saiyan Goku. You have one statement from Beers where he's physically checking Goku, while I have Gohan fighting Piccolo with neither gaining an advantage over the other, and a statement from Tagoma that establishes Base Gohan as the most dangerous on the planet. Base Gohan is stronger than Freeza.

 

[kriss-]

Gohan asked Piccolo to train because his body had become so weak. His body during the Majin Boo Saga was shown to be capable of withstanding Super Saiyan quite easily and he could transform at will, Adult Gohan couldn't. It's impossible for him to be stronger then he was several years ago in only his Base form, or even comparable for that matter. This tells us several things:

a) Piccolo didn't go all out as you argue; hence why he wasn't tired in the slightest, but Gohan was.
b) Adult Gohan SSj is weaker then Teen Gohan SSj from the Boo Saga.
c) Adult Gohan Base is definitely weaker then Organic Freeza as three official sources suggest, one of which was written by Akira Toriyama, everything else is an adaption of his ideology.

This all suggests that you're wrong and that Gohan is not exclusive to the statement made from Beerus.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Gohan could also become Ultimate and Super Saiyan with no issue 6 months before, too. It isn't impossible because that's what was clearly shown. The Boo saga and Daizenshuu you adhere to even shows that the Base Saiyans are above Freeza.

a) Piccolo said he wasn't going to go easy on Gohan when they train. This would be the total opposite of what Piccolo said.
b) He's not. Gohan lost his Ultimate power and his Super Saiyan became different altogether. That's why transforming put a strain on him. The Gohan that weakened from the Boo saga to ROF is a lot stronger than the one that weakened from the Cell Games to Boo saga.
c) If Base Gohan was weaker, then him fighting equally with Piccolo would've never taken place.

I'm wrong, yet you're attempting to separate Gohan from the statement. He's either above Freeza or he's not. He's above him based on his showing with Piccolo.

 

[kriss-]

I don't actually adhere to the Daizenshuu, although I do acknowledge new points that it makes but it doesn't mean I follow it's logic.

As my previous summary shows it's impossible for Piccolo to have gone all out. Vegeta stated the same thing with Cabba, but we know that he was capable of one-shotting him the entire time. So no, we don't have to take Piccolo's statement at face value because previous implications suggest that his body is even rustier then it was during the Majin Boo Saga, in turn, this makes the most sense since it adheres to three official statements that tell us that Base Saiyans are weaker then Freeza.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

You adhere to its battle powers and have no issue telling us how official it is when it's convenient for you.

It isn't impossible because they were both shown to be fighting hard. Piccolo having his weights off is another sign that he wasn't taking it easy on Gohan like he said. Like the fight shows, Piccolo grabs him by his face, slams him right into the mountain, and the two clash on an even level,before punching each other in the face. There's no reason to hold-back there when he's trying to get Gohan back into fighting form.

 

[kriss-]

No not at all. My recent battle power list shows Freeza at being around 140 million, completely disregarding the Daizenshuu and it speculative conjecture.

Piccolo's reaction after fighting Gohan is completely different from Gohan, whom can barely stand. The two aren't close at all. Because Vegeta told Cabba that he was going to go all out, but obviously lied, allows me to disregard Piccolo's statement because of Gohan's performance against him and the multiple statements that suggests that the Base Saiyans are actually inferior to Freeza.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Piccolo is hunched over immediately after they're finished, but Gohan is more winded. You've never bent down to catch your breath? That has nothing to do with barely being able to stand.

After Gohan catches his breath, he jumps right back up to greet Goku.

Stop exaggerating.

 

[kriss-]

Statements within a story should not be taken at face value because there could be several underlying factors that make it plausible to dismiss the ideology. In this scenario, Base Saiyans are regarded as being inferior to Organic Freeza.

Gohan is the one whom asked Piccolo to help him get stronger because he was far too weak on his own. His body was shown to be barely capable of withstanding the 50x multiplier from Super Saiyan, whereas during the Majin Boo Saga, he was capable of transforming into a Super Saiyan at will and was able to maintain that degree of power rather easily. This suggests that Super Saiyan Adult Gohan is weaker then Teen Gohan was from the Boo Saga, which simultaneously implies that he to is in fact weaker then Organic Freeza, allowing me to disregard Piccolo's statement about going all out, because several suggestions from previous sources disregard his statement as actually being factual as opposed to motivation to help Gohan train.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Statements within a story should not be taken at face value because there could be several underlying factors that make it plausible to dismiss the ideology.

Like Beers checking Goku's body and not mentioning anything about assessing his Chi?

In this scenario, Base Saiyans are regarded as being inferior to Organic Freeza.

Regarded based on what? A statement by Beers that saw Super Saiyan Goku beating down a 50% Freeza.

 

[kriss-]

Akira Toriyama already stated that Freeza got cocky so Beerus cleaned his clock. There is no reason to disregard what Beerus said and aforementioned reasoning allows me to disregard your train of thought for specified reasons.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Which has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Did AT say Beers knocked out 100% Freeza? If not, then it doesn't help your point at all since First Form Freeza was the one known throughout the universe.

Anyway, Beers takes a look at Goku and comes to the conclusion that he can't beat Freeza as he was. Where was the Chi-sensing being done?

 

[kriss-]

Doesn't matter. Beerus knows how powerful Freeza is and there are no underlying factors to suggest that his estimation was incorrect. Three official sources support it but nothing supports you, falsifying your ideology.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

That's something you can't prove. Freeza only used his weakest form back in the day without ever transforming. Freeza never walked around at 100% power. You know that's a load of crap.

There's a lot that supports my stance. Kaioshin (who can one-shot Freeza) being scared of Yakon is one of them. Base Goku can fight Yakon without transforming. Prove it wrong.

 

[kriss-]

Nothing contradicts the three official sources that support my ideology. Nothing contradicts Gohan's body being unable to properly withstand the Super Saiyan multiplier. Everything supports the notion that Adult Gohan is weaker then Teen Gohan from the Boo Saga and this simultaneously supports the statement made from Beerus. Summarily allowing me to disregard your notions and ideas.