FnF Chain...

[Evil Vegeta]

And nothing contradicts the fact that Kaioshin can one-shot Freeza, but is scared of a guy that Base Goku can fight.

I'd ask you to prove Freeza is stronger than Yakon, but we know that ain't happening.

Also, take another look at Piccolo hunched over to realize how much you like to exaggerate.

 

[kriss-]

I don't feel compelled to waste my time countering those weak arguments. I've already established enough evidence to support my notions and ideals.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

There's nothing weak about it. You're just someone who exaggerates to prove a point. Gohan can barely stand....

 

[kriss-]

Well if you wish to result to trying to make fun of me, by all means. If you cross the line, I'll report you pronto.

As I've said before, there are multiple reasons to support my ideas and reasons as to why I can disregard Piccolo's statement, making my analysis completely self consistent.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

No one's making fun of you. Don't act like that when you're known to be rather ignorant when you want to be. I just made it a point to use actual images to show how much you exaggerate your points.

 

[kriss-]

That is entirely your prerogative, but don't act like your ideas are factual when they are clearly contradicted by established points.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Contradicted by things that are your opinion, you mean? Piccolo going against his own word is entirely your opinion. Especially when the point was to help Gohan regain his fighting ability. The visual evidence does not lie.

 

[kriss-]

Contradicted by basic reading comprehension. Visual evidence also disregards your ideas, since Adult Gohan couldn't handle Super Saiyan meanwhile Teen Gohan could, pretty effortlessly as well.

So no, you're own ideas are not the only viable solution out there.

 

[kriss-]

Adult Gohan's body was unable to withstand Super Saiyan because it had become to rusty over time. Additionally, the visual evidence supports the notion that he was definitely weaker then he was from the Boo Saga. His muscles are shown to be exceptionally small in comparison to his former teenage self from high school. The suggestion here is that he grew weaker overall, but was still stronger then Piccolo as a Super Saiyan, who may or may not have been much different from what he was during the Cell Games. Additionally, this follows the logic that the Base Saiyans are inferior to Freeza.

Kaioshin on his own cannot disregard this because his underling, Kibito, was implied to be capable of giving Gohan a hard time, and nothing contradicted that, nor did any underlying concepts disregard that notion. Piccolo has also been established as being capable of surpassing Super Saiyan tier power during the Androids Saga, which places him far above Organic Freeza, but even he is regarded as being in a lower dimension of power in comparison to Kaioshin.

Goku's Base form in addition to Gohan's Base form were regarded as being capable of easily besting Yakon.

All of this information gathered into one whole suggests:

Kaioshin > Piccolo > Goku Base > Vegeta Pre-Majin Base > Teen Gohan Base > Kibito

At bare minimum.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Gohan thought Kibito would be a tough challenge because he was judging his presence. He had no way of sensing him.

Kaioshin (who knows these guys fought Freeza) can one-shot Freeza, yet the power of Base Vegeta literally stuns him.

Kaioshin is shown to be scared of Yakon, who can be fought by Base Goku alone. How is Yakon weaker than someone Kaioshin can one-shot?

 

[kriss-]

I'll help you out:

While it was heavily implied not 1,not 2 but 3 versions of Battle of Gods that Base Goku in BOG was still weaker than Freeza [Pre Training].How would you explain these things ?

* Vegeta being confident on winning the TB even if Piccolo is participating.

Chapter: 430 (DBZ 236), P6.5-6
Context: after Gohan asks that nobody becomes a Super Saiyan in the tournament
Vegeta: “…Well, I guess that’s fine. If nobody becomes a Super Saiyan, then the conditions are the same. My superior position doesn’t change…”

* Base Goten and Trunks [In Mighty Mask costume] putting up a good fight against Android 18.

* This line by Dabra

Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P11.1-3
Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co.
Dabra: “Seems they’re trying to hide from us…In total…there are 7. We can’t use Kaioshin and Kibito’s energy…But 3 of them [Goku,Gohan,Vegeta] seem to have marvelous energy…”
Babidi: “Looks like it. It seems that we’ll get more than enough energy from just those 3…Kuhihihi…To think that we’d be able to revive Majin Boo so quickly…”

The Counters:

The first statement is clearly only talking about the Saiyans. Vegeta is merely saying that if none of them use SSJ, then the respective gaps in their power will stay the same. It's actually a fairly strong argument for SSJ being a multiplier that I had never really considered, but oh well. Vegeta's goal here is to beat Goku; he doesn't care about the tournament.

As for 18 and Mighty Mask, 18 does want to win the tournament. She, however, can't sense ki, so she has to keep herself restrained in order not to kill any normal people, which would result in her being disqualified and not winning the tournament. The issue with Mighty Mask is that she has restricted herself to fighting normal Earthlings, and MM is much stronger than that.

As for Dabura, he thought Pui-Pui would beat Vegeta. Who cares what he thinks?

Kaioshin also seems to be scared of anything with Majin stamped on it. Piccolo is established as being stronger then Base Saiyans but weaker then Kaioshin. This remains factual and Kaioshin was scared for no reasons other then strength alone.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

If he was scared of anything with an "M", why wasn't he scared of Spopovitch and Yamu? Because the "M" stuff is an outdated excuse.

Kaioshin has knowledge of both Yakon and Dabra based on the fact that he quickly recognizes their appearance. He's fearful of them for a reason. To try and separate power from his fear is pretty disingenuous.

And again, why is he so blown away by Base Vegeta if Kaioshin already admitted he couldn't beat Goku and he couldn't win without their help?

 

[kriss-]

Kaioshin > Piccolo > Android Saga Super Saiyans

Disregards your notions completely.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Kaioshin said he would lose to Goku before he saw him transform. He might not have even knew he could transform.

Kaioshin said Base Vegeta was stronger than he imagined and shown to be quite stunned at his power.

Kaioshin can one-shot Freeza.

Freeza is established as weaker than Base Goku and Vegeta on the basis that a guy who can one-shot him thought he was nothing.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo came out stronger whilst inside Majin Boo and someone of Trunks's strength level came out weaker. Yet he is regarded as being another dimension weaker then Kaioshin. It's indirectly implied that Kaioshin is much stronger then Base Saiyans, regardless if he doesn't think he is.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Base Trunks is weaker than Base Goku and Base Vegeta.

All that tells us is Piccolo>Base Kids.

 

[kriss-]

Yet your Diazenshuu tells us that the kids are capable of rivaling Gohan and Piccolo has already been shown to be stronger then Android Saga Super Saiyans and nothing supports the idea that the Base Saiyans surpassed that degree of power in only their Base forms. Three official sources contradict that ideology and nothing disregards that.

Kaioshin on his own is not entirely reliable and he showed enough strength to do something against Innocent Boo while Teen Gohan Mssj was completely one-shotted. He obviously cannot be that much weaker then Super Saiyan Gohan.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Lol, don't say my Daizenshuu when you've cited it for Nappa's battle power for ages.

You don't have to have Kaioshin below the Base Saiyans to have the Base Saiyans above Freeza. Kaioshin mentions Freeza as if he's fodder, but Yakon is someone he's actually scared of. Yakon is above Freeza. You know the rest.

 

[kriss-]

I roll with Nappa's battle power being at around 4,500. Meanwhile the Daizenshuu has him at around 4,000.

Yakon wasn't demonstrated to be stronger then Kaioshin. So it's an irrelevant argument to say the least. Goku's Base form has already been shown to be inferior to Freeza by Akira Toriyama himself. The official god of the Dragonball Universe discredits your arguments and over-rides you completely. This indirectly suggests that Yakon is weaker then Organic Freeza as well and suggests that Kaioshin isn't entirely reliable during the Majin Boo Saga.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The Daizenshuu says Kaioshin is scared of Yakon, Kaioshin doesn't even think twice about trying to fight him alone. Keep in mind that this is the same Kaioshin (who didn't even know Dabra or Yakon were there) that said he wouldn't be able to stop Bobbidi without their help. He can't one-shot Yakon on the basis that he's shitting himself over him, so that makes him above Freeza by default.

Say what you want, but AT's story has the Kaioshin stunned by a Base Saiyan. In Kaioshin's eyes, Freeza is trash. That has nothing to do with being reliable.