Gog watches GT.

[Pocket-Gog~]

This mysterious green figure just killed a man

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

>Mr Satan is being massaged by a smoking hot babe in her undies.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Magure >>>>> Goku

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

 

[SSJ2]

Oob's realization that he was now to become irrelevant for the rest of GT.

 

[Papasmurf]

https://youtu.be/TXODoTMnUZM

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

What the fuck, Gero and Myuu are talking to each other like they've known each other for years.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

This arc is going to be Super tier stupid I can feel it.

 

[Papasmurf]

I also heavily disagree with Galu turning to a child allowing the writers to actually pretend he was a character that could now be developed again. He didn't lose any of his abilities sans his Shunkan Idou, he didn't lose his memories (although he does act like a child during comic relief moments, but so did Z Galu whenever needles were in the vicinity and in other situations), and the mightiest enemies prior to Baby couldn't even make him turn SSJ2. He could've more than likely Dragon Fist'd Lood out of existence at SSJ2 or SSJ3, and the same could be said of all the M2 faggots.

I don't really think so. The pre Baby antagonists ironically enough were versatile enough that Galu couldn't really overpower them, Lood needed to be attacked from inside and outside at once. Rildo could turn into an entire planet full of metal and could easily outlast SSJ3 Galu. Its also a moot point talking about SSJ2 in GT considering the form is treated as if it doesn't exist in the show.

Spoiler

Goku accessing SSJ2 to blast away Rild's metal shows he could access it any time. Vegeta also showed lightning in his aura in Episode 63, plus Galu himself went SSJ and SSJ2 before turning SSJ3 in his second battle against Vegeta-Baby. It's not a "moot point" at all, unlike say SSJ2 Gotenks which is a form that literally never saw a single ounce of movement or action. If anything this compounds the problem of Galu never using his higher forms prior to Baby, because to think he could match Baby with SSJ3 (an infinitely more draining form than SSJ2), he ought to have had no problem fighting in SSJ2 (especially when a similarly young Gohan could maintain it upon unlocking it). Yet, he did not, even though Rild's only advantage was covering the planet's surface with metal... and planet busting has been a thing ever since Saiyan arc Vegeta

Lood not being one-shot material for SSJ2/SSJ3 Galu is a no limits fallacy by the way. After all, nobody would make the argument that SSJ4 Galu couldn't defeat Rild without having help from the inside, so that point is pretty moot.

What they really should've done was kill him off and make him proud that his sons' generation was now handling themselves fine as Z seemingly was building up to until Gohan got absorbed by Boo, or if they weren't gonna do that, they should've at least made him unable to turn Super Saiyan anymore without rage as a catalyst and worked up to him regaining SSJ2 and SSJ3 afterwards, while developing Trunks, Goten and Pan in the process. GT failed to deliver on all of these counts. Can't call it remotely close to good for those reasons.

That ship had LONG since passed by the time Toriyama decided that Gohan was inadequate to be the main protagonist. GT didn't set any trends in how it treated Goku and the cast, that was established by Toriyama in the Buu arc.

It didn't pass for Goten and Trunks, who carried the Boo arc in Gohan, Goku and Vegeta's absence and were considered "ultra-prodigies." They had just as much if not even more potential than Galu to be protagonists, especially since it was stated that they were slacking off after Boo's defeat and have much room to grow. Gohan also ended Z (the Boo arc to be specific, to avoid Super/EoZ bullshit) much stronger than Goku and the strongest unfused character, yet he got no such respect here. That's called not being faithful to your source material, lmao.

There's a reason why even some ardent defenders of GT (that aren't :withheld COH) usually open up by saying it was below average by anime standards, because it really is that bad. Mind you when I was watching GT as it was airing on Toonami, some of my favorite shows were Megas XLR, Teen Titans, Inuyasha (albeit, before it went into filler/Naraku chasing hell), pre-Dartz Yu-Gi-Oh!, and Yu Yu Hakusho (which I'd only seen up to the middle of the Dark Tournament). Even then, I hated pretty much all of GT except the SSJ4 Galu vs. Oozaru Baby fight, and perhaps the last two episodes because they had a more "Z" feel to them.

I definitely agree that by other anime standards it is below average, but I also think that the bar got so low in the Cell and Buu arc that Baby arc had an easy time surpassing it.

If an arc is below average, it doesn't merit an 8/10 lmao. 8 is 3 points higher than 5/10. And I also disagree with Baby arc being better than Cell when the Cell arc at least could keep power chains consistent and give Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks the spotlight as well as provide a satisfying conclusion to Trunks' character arc (even if it was later marred by Super, but that's another can of worms). With Boo it's debatable, but AT already said during an interview discussing the last couple of chapters in the Boo arc that he made sure the message was sent that Goku's journeys and battles were now over, and he was now the master and not the disciple.

I feel GT tarnished that considerably, plus Galu stressed to not just Gohan/Goten/Trunks but even to Oob that they were now to be the Earth's defenders, right down to the last chapter. When did GT live up to this message? The most Oob accomplished was attacking Baby from the inside when Goku could win without such aid just by teleporting somewhere else and receiving energy there. He then went on to be more or less on the same level of irrelevance as Gohan and Goten, further cementing that GT was indeed just Goku Time.

Not only that, but GT's ending was almost a parallel to Z's ending, with Goku leaving off to train in a faraway place, only this time it was permanent and he'd never come back (at least until the Hero's Legacy special ). For this conclusion to have true emotional payoff, he ought to have been replaced by good reinforcements, yet what we see is an incompetent Vegeta who's utterly inferior to any SSJ4 tier threat without Bulma building him a machine so he can access SSJ4 for half an hour, and much weaker heroes who never did anything to carry their own weight in GT (unless being power batteries for Goku and Baby is a grand accomplishment).

GT was a below average show that hardly merits a score any higher than a 3 imo, and its ending was vague and had little emotional payoff beyond being a sendoff for Galu.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Spoiler

Goku accessing SSJ2 to blast away Rild's metal shows he could access it any time. It's not a "moot point" at all, unlike say SSJ2 Gotenks which is a form that literally never saw a single ounce of movement or action.

Galu never uses SSJ2 in the entirety of the Baby arc and BSDB arc - as confirmed by the Perfect Files. I swear SSJ2 is flat out not used by anyone, even Baby skips past the form and is implied to be using a twisted version of SSJ3 in the perfect files.

If anything this compounds the problem of Galu never using his higher forms prior to Baby, because to think he could match Baby with SSJ3 (an infinitely more draining form than SSJ2), he ought to have had no problem fighting in SSJ2 (especially when a similarly young Gohan could maintain it upon unlocking it). Yet, he did not, even though Rild's only advantage was covering the planet's surface with metal... and planet busting has been a thing ever since Saiyan arc Vegeta

Rildo was the entire world lol. It was stated that he had essentially turned into the entire planet. There was nothing Galu could do to actually beat him at that point. Sure he could destroy the planet, if he could breathe in space and didn't care about saving Earth, Pan and Trunks. But since Rildo had frozen the ship in carbonite and just teleported Trunks off world - Goku just nuking the world would've been monstrously irresponsible.

And what could have SSJ3 Goku done? Run out of energy faster like what happened with his first encounter with Baby? The childs body is even worse at handling SSJ3s might than the adult body is.

Lood not being one-shot material for SSJ2/SSJ3 Galu is a no limits fallacy by the way. After all, nobody would make the argument that SSJ4 Galu couldn't defeat Rild without having help from the inside, so that point is pretty moot.

Its the implication that was given, especially considering Goku never even bothered to power up against it.

It didn't pass for Goten and Trunks, who carried the Boo arc in Gohan, Goku and Vegeta's absence and were considered "ultra-prodigies." They had just as much if not even more potential than Galu to be protagonists, especially since it was stated that they were slacking off after Boo's defeat and have much room to grow. Gohan also ended Z (the Boo arc to be specific, to avoid Super/EoZ bullshit) much stronger than Goku and the strongest unfused character, yet he got no such respect here. That's called not being faithful to your source material, lmao.

It passed for Goten and Trunks. Let's be real. By the time of End of Z, Toriyama was especially clear that while Goten and Trunks might be prodigies they had zero interest in actually training or fighting. Just as I said, Toriyama had effectively retired most of the cast by the time End of Z ran around and GT had to carry on with that.

Personally however, I think GT still used the cast well (at least for the Baby/BSDB arc) so there's that.

If an arc is below average, it doesn't merit an 8/10 lmao. 8 is 3 points higher than 5/10. And I also disagree with Baby arc being better than Cell when the Cell arc at least could keep power chains consistent and give Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks the spotlight as well as provide a satisfying conclusion to Trunks' character arc (even if it was later marred by Super, but that's another can of worms). With Boo it's debatable, but AT already said during an interview discussing the last couple of chapters in the Boo arc that he made sure the message was sent that Goku's journeys and battles were now over, and he was now the master and not the disciple.

I feel GT tarnished that considerably, plus Galu stressed to not just Gohan/Goten/Trunks but even to Oob that they were now to be the Earth's defenders, right down to the last chapter. When did GT live up to this message? The most Oob accomplished was attacking Baby from the inside when Goku could win without such aid just by teleporting somewhere else and receiving energy there.

It gives Piccolo the spotlight who ends up fighting android 17 and then jobbing to Cell.
It gives Vegeta the spotlight who is handed a massive sized idiot ball to allow Cell to reach his perfect form.
Trunks as a character is Kaioshin tier useless and Trunks in GT (at least for the BSDB arc and baby arc) was far more useful and central to the plot than he ever was.
The power chains were more consistent in Cell arc and that's the most that arc can boast about.

 

[Papasmurf]

Spoiler

Goku accessing SSJ2 to blast away Rild's metal shows he could access it any time. It's not a "moot point" at all, unlike say SSJ2 Gotenks which is a form that literally never saw a single ounce of movement or action.

Galu never uses SSJ2 in the entirety of the Baby arc and BSDB arc - as confirmed by the Perfect Files. I swear SSJ2 is flat out not used by anyone, even Baby skips past the form and is implied to be using a twisted version of SSJ3 in the perfect files.

The Perfect Files are inaccurate in this case seeing as both the screenshot I posted above, as well as the scene of Goku cycling through his forms to go SSJ3 against Vegeta-Baby on Planet Plant showed Galu with his SSJ2 hairstyle, on top of the latter instance having the trademark lightning aura. It's worth noting that the Perfect Files state that Gohan kept up his training, yet one of GT's lead writers said that Gohan had not trained or been a warrior at all, and that he planned to have a returning to his warrior roots episode for Gohan (similar to ToP Gohan) to develop his character.

Guidebooks are fine to use, but not when they contradict the source material. Hell, the guidebook entry you referred to also said Goku only used SSJ2 against Majin Vegeta and in the GT opening, even though Toei's own anime adaptation showed Galu using it against Kid Boo for an entire episode, and GT is a direct sequel to the anime DBZ.

If anything this compounds the problem of Galu never using his higher forms prior to Baby, because to think he could match Baby with SSJ3 (an infinitely more draining form than SSJ2), he ought to have had no problem fighting in SSJ2 (especially when a similarly young Gohan could maintain it upon unlocking it). Yet, he did not, even though Rild's only advantage was covering the planet's surface with metal... and planet busting has been a thing ever since Saiyan arc Vegeta

Rildo was the entire world lol. It was stated that he had essentially turned into the entire planet. There was nothing Galu could do to actually beat him at that point. Sure he could destroy the planet, if he could breathe in space and didn't care about saving Earth, Pan and Trunks. But since Rildo had frozen the ship in carbonite and just teleported Trunks off world - Goku just nuking the world would've been monstrously irresponsible.

Goku knows where his ship was and can sense Pan's ki (who was fighting Rild's robots in his factory just before Galu's battle with Rild). All Goku needed to do was spam about 10 continent level attacks on the planet while not destroying his own ship or attacking Pan, and Rild's one advantage is toaaaaaaast.

And what could have SSJ3 Goku done? Run out of energy faster like what happened with his first encounter with Baby? The childs body is even worse at handling SSJ3s might than the adult body is.

Something which he didn't even discover until he ran the form for its first fight in GT, about 15 episodes after Rild's demise. This is an intellectually dishonest argument, and this doesn't refute my SSJ2 Goku argument.

Lood not being one-shot material for SSJ2/SSJ3 Galu is a no limits fallacy by the way. After all, nobody would make the argument that SSJ4 Galu couldn't defeat Rild without having help from the inside, so that point is pretty moot.

Its the implication that was given, especially considering Goku never even bothered to power up against it.

Would SSJ4 Gogeta be unable to defeat Lood without help? Or Yi Xing Long, or Super 17?

Again, no limits fallacy. And the fact that Galu never needed forms higher than SSJ until Baby shows that what I said about there being no true progression, or room for progression for Galu (barring Toei haxes/illogical power chains) until he achieved SSJ4. A protagonist who doesn't progress is a stagnant protagonist, and GT itself is a stagnant show when Goku and Pan are carrying the whole series, all while Goku doesn't develop as a character at all because his development was already finished 2/3rds into Z.

It didn't pass for Goten and Trunks, who carried the Boo arc in Gohan, Goku and Vegeta's absence and were considered "ultra-prodigies." They had just as much if not even more potential than Galu to be protagonists, especially since it was stated that they were slacking off after Boo's defeat and have much room to grow. Gohan also ended Z (the Boo arc to be specific, to avoid Super/EoZ bullshit) much stronger than Goku and the strongest unfused character, yet he got no such respect here. That's called not being faithful to your source material, lmao.

It passed for Goten and Trunks. Let's be real. By the time of End of Z, Toriyama was especially clear that while Goten and Trunks might be prodigies they had zero interest in actually training or fighting. Just as I said, Toriyama had effectively retired most of the cast by the time End of Z ran around and GT had to carry on with that.

And Toriyama still developed Gohan's character in the Boo arc by having him realize the importance of keeping up his training with the Z Sword segment upon realizing that Galu trained so hard in the afterlife, and by having him do a 180 on his prior meekness upon becoming Ultimate Gohan. If Goten and Trunks aren't motivated heroes, then they just need to be developed in a way that they will be. It's not hard. Look how unmotivated Saiyan arc Gohan was, and then compare him to his Freeza arc self. Z did it already, developing a character to be Galu's successor which culminated in Gohan turning SSJ2 and avenging his father. Even if the Boo arc ultimately ended with Gohan's protagonist status being rescinded, he had plenty of hightlights and development before he retired to the sidelines. Goten and Trunks didn't have shit in GT.

If an arc is below average, it doesn't merit an 8/10 lmao. 8 is 3 points higher than 5/10. And I also disagree with Baby arc being better than Cell when the Cell arc at least could keep power chains consistent and give Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks the spotlight as well as provide a satisfying conclusion to Trunks' character arc (even if it was later marred by Super, but that's another can of worms). With Boo it's debatable, but AT already said during an interview discussing the last couple of chapters in the Boo arc that he made sure the message was sent that Goku's journeys and battles were now over, and he was now the master and not the disciple.

I feel GT tarnished that considerably, plus Galu stressed to not just Gohan/Goten/Trunks but even to Oob that they were now to be the Earth's defenders, right down to the last chapter. When did GT live up to this message? The most Oob accomplished was attacking Baby from the inside when Goku could win without such aid just by teleporting somewhere else and receiving energy there.

It gives Piccolo the spotlight who ends up fighting android 17 and then jobbing to Cell.
It gives Vegeta the spotlight who is handed a massive sized idiot ball to allow Cell to reach his perfect form.
Trunks as a character is Kaioshin tier useless and Trunks in GT (at least for the BSDB arc and baby arc) was far more useful and central to the plot than he ever was.
The power chains were more consistent in Cell arc and that's the most that arc can boast about.

Piccolo literally had one fight in GT and that was his attempted murder by Baby, which in of itself is PIS when attacking Piccolo enough to seriously injure or even kill him puts the BSDBs in danger

Piccolo also had to face his own inner demons to merge with Kami (his counterpart whom he hated), while in GT his only character moment was choosing death.

It was stated that Vegeta became more prideful than ever upon unlocking Super Saiyan, and he'd now gone a step beyond it - Goku himself had the same idiot ball moment when he allowed Freeza to go 100% just for a good fight. Toriyama's characterization of Vegeta was consistent with prior showings of Super Saiyans.

Future Trunks ended the Cell arc tied as the third strongest Z Senshi after Gohan and the deceased Goku, and killed not only Freeza but all of Gero's creations and saved the world multiple times in the process. GT Trunks' biggest feat was... tricking Dr. Myu with Gill's help. You are just parroting CC's old argument that Trunks is as useless as Kaioshin, even though he showed the most promise of any of the half-breeds by continuing to train to uphold peace, and going in the RoSaT twice. GT Trunks showed basically no such progress, his greatest accomplishment being pounding on Oozaru Baby's face a little bit when he gave him those free hits

You're also not addressing the fact that the last chapter of the manga and Episode 291 of Z both illustrate Oob as Goku's one true successor in defending the Earth, yet Oob escaped irrelevance for two whole episodes before being swallowed by Baby and then going on to be as useless as tits on a bull.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

The Perfect Files are inaccurate in this case seeing as both the screenshot I posted above, as well as the scene of Goku cycling through his forms to go SSJ3 against Vegeta-Baby on Planet Plant showed Galu with his SSJ2 hairstyle, on top of the latter instance having the trademark lightning aura. It's worth noting that the Perfect Files state that Gohan kept up his training, yet one of GT's lead writers said that Gohan had not trained or been a warrior at all, and that he planned to have a returning to his warrior roots episode for Gohan (similar to ToP Gohan) to develop his character.

That's a missed opportunity then.

Guidebooks are fine to use, but not when they contradict the source material. Hell, the guidebook entry you referred to also said Goku only used SSJ2 against Majin Vegeta and in the GT opening, even though Toei's own anime adaptation showed Galu using it against Kid Boo for an entire episode, and GT is a direct sequel to the anime DBZ.

The guy who wrote it was reading the manga

But in all seriousness the claim that GT never used SSJ2 in the entire Baby and BSDB arc is a claim that I can take seriously. With the exception of one minor scene against Baby (which was purely visual) SSJ2 is never once acknowledged in the entire show. The better question to ask is why is SSJ2 totally absent in the Baby and BSDB arc? And I think its one of the stranger decisions the two arcs made.

Rildo was the entire world lol. It was stated that he had essentially turned into the entire planet. There was nothing Galu could do to actually beat him at that point. Sure he could destroy the planet, if he could breathe in space and didn't care about saving Earth, Pan and Trunks. But since Rildo had frozen the ship in carbonite and just teleported Trunks off world - Goku just nuking the world would've been monstrously irresponsible.

Goku knows where his ship was and can sense Pan's ki (who was fighting Rild's robots in his factory just before Galu's battle with Rild). All Goku needed to do was spam about 10 continent level attacks on the planet while not destroying his own ship or attacking Pan, and Rild's one advantage is toaaaaaaast.

And the entire planet is toast too. M-2 was a machine mutant - as stated in one of the guidebooks - destroying the planet was the only way to get rid of Rildo in his transformed state.

Something which he didn't even discover until he ran the form for its first fight in GT, about 15 episodes after Rild's demise. This is an intellectually dishonest argument, and this doesn't refute my SSJ2 Goku argument.

It refutes the SSJ3 argument even if Galu was too retarded to use it against Rildo, it would not have won him the battle.

Would SSJ4 Gogeta be unable to defeat Lood without help? Or Yi Xing Long, or Super 17?

Probably, 50/50 chance depending on what tone the writers are going for.

Again, no limits fallacy. And the fact that Galu never needed forms higher than SSJ until Baby shows that what I said about there being no true progression, or room for progression for Galu (barring Toei haxes/illogical power chains) until he achieved SSJ4. A protagonist who doesn't progress is a stagnant protagonist, and GT itself is a stagnant show when Goku and Pan are carrying the whole series, all while Goku doesn't develop as a character at all because his development was already finished 2/3rds into Z.

That's because most of the arc - a good solid majority of it was just going through searching for the black star dragon balls. Galu going and accessing SSJ4 on Gelbo would be ridiculous. As well as against Rildo, Lood, or Alpha Cannon Sigma - since those characters and fights are all building up to Baby. The biggest problem with GT pre Baby is that Galu should have been progressively using his higher tiered forms against these enemies, SSJ1 against Legic, SSJ2 against Lood and finally SSJ3 against Rildo. This would have given each fight a greater sense of escalation before finally upping the scale with SSJ4.

Goku was a stagnant protagonist from the cell saga onwards - I agree GT is terrible when it concerns progressing Goku's character, but GT is certainly good when it comes to writing Goku as he is.

And Toriyama still developed Gohan's character in the Boo arc by having him realize the importance of keeping up his training with the Z Sword segment upon realizing that Galu trained so hard in the afterlife, and by having him do a 180 on his prior meekness upon becoming Ultimate Gohan.

Which then leads into Gohan getting adsorbed by Buu and being taken out for the entire arc - leaving Goku to deal with Buu himself. Then when we cut to the EoZ chapters Gohan is pretty much shown having turned into a bookworm like before.

If Goten and Trunks aren't motivated heroes, then they just need to be developed in a way that they will be. It's not hard. Look how unmotivated Saiyan arc Gohan was, and then compare him to his Freeza arc self. Z did it already, developing a character to be Galu's successor which culminated in Gohan turning SSJ2 and avenging his father. Even if the Boo arc ultimately ended with Gohan's protagonist status being rescinded, he had plenty of hightlights and development before he retired to the sidelines. Goten and Trunks didn't have shit in GT.

And then compare Freeza saga Gohan to Cell and Buu saga Gohan - because Gohan was never a warrior and eventually Toriyama gave up on him ever leading the series. And ever being a relevant character too.

When it concerns Goten and Trunks, Trunks was perhaps one of the most relevant characters in the entire cast for a good third of the series. I know you dislike the BSDB arc but he was there for all of it and was a major player. He was also a major player for the early Baby arc. Goten himself is far less relevant but he's treated with respect, he's got a distinct personality and he's far better off than he was during EoZ (where he had difficulties even flying ).

Piccolo literally had one fight in GT and that was his attempted murder by Baby, which in of itself is PIS when attacking Piccolo enough to seriously injure or even kill him puts the BSDBs in danger

Piccolo also had to face his own inner demons to merge with Kami (his counterpart whom he hated), while in GT his only character moment was choosing death.

Piccolo had a single fight in the Cell arc (which in the manga was essentially just a few badly drawn pages) before he got molested by Cell and became instantly irrelevant.

I agree that Piccolo merging with Kami is a great character moment for him, but in the context of the overall story? It doesn't actually make any difference to the plot. This was Piccolo's entire problem with the Freeza and Cell saga, he'd show up get a power up and then get beat down by the antagonist and become fodder. By the time Buu saga rolled around Toriyama just straight up retired him.

Piccolo in the Baby arc at the very least had a cathartic end to him that ended the threat to the BSDBs for good (and by all accounts that was the only way to get rid of them.) And I also think that in context of Z and DB, the Baby arc gives him a complete character arc and end that IMO is one of the best in the entire series.

It was stated that Vegeta became more prideful than ever upon unlocking Super Saiyan, and he'd now gone a step beyond it - Goku himself had the same idiot ball moment when he allowed Freeza to go 100% just for a good fight. Toriyama's characterization of Vegeta was consistent with prior showings of Super Saiyans.

And that still gave him a gigantic sized idiot ball by letting Cell go perfect. But Vegeta by himself would be alright, but almost every other character in the Cell arc had to act like an idiot in order for the plot to move. Goku and friends were aware of Gero and how he and android 19 killed them all in the future, but just decide to let them go? Its a good thing Future Trunks wasn't there or he'd have a heart attack of his own!

Krillin doesn't kill android 18 for reasons?

Piccolo doesn't just clobber android 20? For reasons? Especially considering he's stronger than him?

Goku doesn't take the heart medicine?

Gohan doesn't want to kill now? Since when?

And don't get me started with how Toriyama's editors ended up making the arc more and more convoluted and forced Toriyama to revise the main villains three times. Each time getting more and more convoluted and half baked.

Future Trunks ended the Cell arc tied as the third strongest Z Senshi after Gohan and the deceased Goku, and killed not only Freeza but all of Gero's creations and saved the world multiple times in the process. GT Trunks' biggest feat was... tricking Dr. Myu with Gill's help. You are just parroting CC's old argument that Trunks is as useless as Kaioshin, even though he showed the most promise of any of the half-breeds by continuing to train to uphold peace, and going in the RoSaT twice. GT Trunks showed basically no such progress, his greatest accomplishment being pounding on Oozaru Baby's face a little bit when he gave him those free hits

Being the third strongest in the Cell arc matters little when number 1 and number 2 of the Z senshi are both lightyears ahead of you. Trunks was a messenger with a cool entrance, about as useful as Kaioshin was (except that Kaioshin managed to become more useful in subsequent stories with his knowledge and powers). Past his fight with Freeza he's constantly painted as an almost bumbling fool who constantly underestimates how strong the next threat is. He trains with Vegeta, unlocks a useless form (that establishes how he's a horrible fighter) and he dies against Cell. It doesn't matter that he's the third strongest Z Senshi because everything he does is lame as shit.

You're also not addressing the fact that the last chapter of the manga and Episode 291 of Z both illustrate Oob as Goku's one true successor in defending the Earth, yet Oob escaped irrelevance for two whole episodes before being swallowed by Baby and then going on to be as useless as tits on a bull.

Or more accurately that the real reason why Goku even bothered wishing back Uub was so he could have a good fight. We're also getting ahead of ourselves with the future of GT, since I'm talking about the Baby arc here.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Already we have a good and awful retcon here. Dr. Gero implies that he attempted to erase 18 and 17's memory of their human lives and failed to do so - which led to them rebelling.

Awful retcon - 17 was intended to have power greater than Cell

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Ngl there's an irony in the fact that not only did future 17 BTFO future trunks, but this 17 BTFO'd this trunks as well.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

17 should not have been the main antagonist here. For fucks sake this is literally repeating the "perfect" android type storyline for the fourth time in a row. Twice in the same show too.