Gog watches GT.

[Pocket-Gog~]

And why 17 of all androids? Why they tryna make him so important and special. This nigga was Cell food!

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Cooler confirmed canon

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

>That Muscle tower android had a soul

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Cooler confirmed canon

I believe m5 and m8 are canon just because they kick ass.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

"If Cell and Freeza were to come back like this what in the world would we do?"

Blow them away? Its not like Goku is stronger than fucking Super Buu in base form. God this is so dumb. Bulma is a dumb bitch.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Fresh from beating Jiren and saving the universe too

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Goten is fighting the almighty Pui Pui how will he win. :what

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Early front runner for thread of the year. Content, jokes, great screen caps, tons of interaction. Real quality shit here.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Trunks killed Yakon lol

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

>19 had a soul too

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

THAT RANDOM PLANE GOKU SHOT DOWN HAD A SOUL TOO

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Honestly the most interesting revelation about this arc is that Dr. Myuu and Dr. Gero are visually reminiscent of each other. I think this is further proof that the similarities between the Baby and Cell arc were both intentional.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

 

[Papasmurf]

Prepare for Badly Animated Seru and Furiiiiza next ep

 

[Papasmurf]

The Perfect Files are inaccurate in this case seeing as both the screenshot I posted above, as well as the scene of Goku cycling through his forms to go SSJ3 against Vegeta-Baby on Planet Plant showed Galu with his SSJ2 hairstyle, on top of the latter instance having the trademark lightning aura. It's worth noting that the Perfect Files state that Gohan kept up his training, yet one of GT's lead writers said that Gohan had not trained or been a warrior at all, and that he planned to have a returning to his warrior roots episode for Gohan (similar to ToP Gohan) to develop his character.
Guidebooks are fine to use, but not when they contradict the source material. Hell, the guidebook entry you referred to also said Goku only used SSJ2 against Majin Vegeta and in the GT opening, even though Toei's own anime adaptation showed Galu using it against Kid Boo for an entire episode, and GT is a direct sequel to the anime DBZ.

The guy who wrote it was reading the manga

But in all seriousness the claim that GT never used SSJ2 in the entire Baby and BSDB arc is a claim that I can take seriously. With the exception of one minor scene against Baby (which was purely visual) SSJ2 is never once acknowledged in the entire show. The better question to ask is why is SSJ2 totally absent in the Baby and BSDB arc? And I think its one of the stranger decisions the two arcs made.

GT doesn't run in the manga continuity, is the point. It even acknowledges the existence of Coola, who is only canon to movies 5, 6 and 12. This is a moot point. And Goku's hairstyle changes alongside his having a much more intense aura (which he used to blow away Rild's metal ball), so SSJ2 isn't completely absent - just enough that the idiot who wrote that entry forgot about it. And yes, SSJ2 being mostly absent even though it should be used by Baby as Vegeta's full power is garbage, but it's garbage that takes away from the quality of the show. Even Super did better in this regard because it even had cameos from Grades 2 and 3, which were completely forgotten straight after their debut - and gave SSJ2 the respect it needed as the last form in the SSJ line that doesn't drain a disproportionately high amount of ki for the power boost it provides.

Rildo was the entire world lol. It was stated that he had essentially turned into the entire planet. There was nothing Galu could do to actually beat him at that point. Sure he could destroy the planet, if he could breathe in space and didn't care about saving Earth, Pan and Trunks. But since Rildo had frozen the ship in carbonite and just teleported Trunks off world - Goku just nuking the world would've been monstrously irresponsible.

Goku knows where his ship was and can sense Pan's ki (who was fighting Rild's robots in his factory just before Galu's battle with Rild). All Goku needed to do was spam about 10 continent level attacks on the planet while not destroying his own ship or attacking Pan, and Rild's one advantage is toaaaaaaast.

And the entire planet is toast too. M-2 was a machine mutant - as stated in one of the guidebooks - destroying the planet was the only way to get rid of Rildo in his transformed state.

If Rild had planted himself into the planet's core rather than just occupying its surface, then him dying from a combined blast of three base Saiyans is even stupider. And no, there's no proof that Rild had merged with the entire planet, only the metal parts of it - and nuking a planet's surface should be an extremely simple task for someone whose base form is already on Majin Boo tier.

Something which he didn't even discover until he ran the form for its first fight in GT, about 15 episodes after Rild's demise. This is an intellectually dishonest argument, and this doesn't refute my SSJ2 Goku argument.

It refutes the SSJ3 argument even if Galu was too retarded to use it against Rildo, it would not have won him the battle.

Given that Namek was still around for 5 minutes after its entire core was obliterated, I really doubt SSJ2 or SSJ3 wouldn't have been enough to avoid blowing up the planet while simultaneously just erasing Rild.

Would SSJ4 Gogeta be unable to defeat Lood without help? Or Yi Xing Long, or Super 17?

Probably, 50/50 chance depending on what tone the writers are going for.

Again, no limits fallacy lol. This is like arguing that Tenshinhan can literally block any Kamehameha just because Roshi said so in a throwaway statement before Daimao was even a thing.

Again, no limits fallacy. And the fact that Galu never needed forms higher than SSJ until Baby shows that what I said about there being no true progression, or room for progression for Galu (barring Toei haxes/illogical power chains) until he achieved SSJ4. A protagonist who doesn't progress is a stagnant protagonist, and GT itself is a stagnant show when Goku and Pan are carrying the whole series, all while Goku doesn't develop as a character at all because his development was already finished 2/3rds into Z.

That's because most of the arc - a good solid majority of it was just going through searching for the black star dragon balls. Galu going and accessing SSJ4 on Gelbo would be ridiculous. As well as against Rildo, Lood, or Alpha Cannon Sigma - since those characters and fights are all building up to Baby. The biggest problem with GT pre Baby is that Galu should have been progressively using his higher tiered forms against these enemies, SSJ1 against Legic, SSJ2 against Lood and finally SSJ3 against Rildo. This would have given each fight a greater sense of escalation before finally upping the scale with SSJ4.

Goku was a stagnant protagonist from the cell saga onwards - I agree GT is terrible when it concerns progressing Goku's character, but GT is certainly good when it comes to writing Goku as he is.

Which is why like I said, they should have limited Goku further with his de-aging, with drawbacks from it like not being able to use Kaioken or Super Saiyan because he learned how to use those power ups after the age of 24. That opens up room for development and can even result in a mini-character arc of sorts where Galu accepts that the reality that he is a child now and must work back up to his original power, developing his character further.

And Toriyama still developed Gohan's character in the Boo arc by having him realize the importance of keeping up his training with the Z Sword segment upon realizing that Galu trained so hard in the afterlife, and by having him do a 180 on his prior meekness upon becoming Ultimate Gohan.

Which then leads into Gohan getting adsorbed by Buu and being taken out for the entire arc - leaving Goku to deal with Buu himself. Then when we cut to the EoZ chapters Gohan is pretty much shown having turned into a bookworm like before.

GT then did a further disservice to his character by weakening him further and reducing his relevance even compared to his M13 self. The writers of GT haven't been kind to Gohan since pretty much forever, even though even in Super Gohan is acknowledged to have perhaps the greatest potential of the main cast. This is made further into a joke by that guidebook entry in the PF of Gohan not having neglected his training, yet being weaker than base Goku as a Baby possessed Super Saiyan

If Goten and Trunks aren't motivated heroes, then they just need to be developed in a way that they will be. It's not hard. Look how unmotivated Saiyan arc Gohan was, and then compare him to his Freeza arc self. Z did it already, developing a character to be Galu's successor which culminated in Gohan turning SSJ2 and avenging his father. Even if the Boo arc ultimately ended with Gohan's protagonist status being rescinded, he had plenty of hightlights and development before he retired to the sidelines. Goten and Trunks didn't have shit in GT.

And then compare Freeza saga Gohan to Cell and Buu saga Gohan - because Gohan was never a warrior and eventually Toriyama gave up on him ever leading the series. And ever being a relevant character too.

When it concerns Goten and Trunks, Trunks was perhaps one of the most relevant characters in the entire cast for a good third of the series. I know you dislike the BSDB arc but he was there for all of it and was a major player. He was also a major player for the early Baby arc. Goten himself is far less relevant but he's treated with respect, he's got a distinct personality and he's far better off than he was during EoZ (where he had difficulties even flying ).

Trunks didn't have difficulty flying, he was just using some sort of Capsule Corp plane. And if he couldn't fly, then Goten definitely would've roasted him about it when Trunks was mocking him for having slacked off so much that Mr. Boo will hand him a royal asswhooping - something which Goten and Trunks could avoid if they had trained! What do you know, the two kids have a lot of potential - potential that was wasted in GT because GT writers remembered SSJ3 was a thing in only two episodes, and used SSJ2 even less when attaining either or both of those forms could've marked significant progression in Goten and Trunks' character arcs.

Piccolo literally had one fight in GT and that was his attempted murder by Baby, which in of itself is PIS when attacking Piccolo enough to seriously injure or even kill him puts the BSDBs in danger

Piccolo also had to face his own inner demons to merge with Kami (his counterpart whom he hated), while in GT his only character moment was choosing death.

Piccolo had a single fight in the Cell arc (which in the manga was essentially just a few badly drawn pages) before he got molested by Cell and became instantly irrelevant.

I agree that Piccolo merging with Kami is a great character moment for him, but in the context of the overall story? It doesn't actually make any difference to the plot. This was Piccolo's entire problem with the Freeza and Cell saga, he'd show up get a power up and then get beat down by the antagonist and become fodder. By the time Buu saga rolled around Toriyama just straight up retired him.

Piccolo had four fights even before the Cell Game - he won against Gero, fought #17 and then battled Cell and was winning until he escaped with the Taiyo-ken (and the narrative significance of the fight shines in that Piccolo got Cell to talk about his perfect form and his origins). #17's rematch with Piccolo also showed he'd overshadowed even Goku significantly, because Goku didn't dare even try to help Piccolo in the fight because he'd just get in the way.

Even if Piccolo's next two fights were just stomps, he still retained far more relevance here than he did in GT, where his only use was for his connection to the BSDBs. A more apt comparison would be Boo arc Piccolo, because he really accomplished nothing there except for introducing Kaioshin's character and pissing off Babidi by nearly killing him.

Piccolo in the Baby arc at the very least had a cathartic end to him that ended the threat to the BSDBs for good (and by all accounts that was the only way to get rid of them.) And I also think that in context of Z and DB, the Baby arc gives him a complete character arc and end that IMO is one of the best in the entire series.

It's not the only way to get rid of the BSDBs when it was openly stated in Z that the Dragon Balls could be destroyed with a strong enough attack (which Gurd saw as possible for Namek arc Kuririn). Piccolo could have survived the Baby arc and the plot would've gone no differently other than that the Evil Dragons would actually have an excuse to be so powerful despite originating from piss-weak Shenlong, if they absorbed the BSDBs and gained the power of Ultimate Shenlong for themselves.

It was stated that Vegeta became more prideful than ever upon unlocking Super Saiyan, and he'd now gone a step beyond it - Goku himself had the same idiot ball moment when he allowed Freeza to go 100% just for a good fight. Toriyama's characterization of Vegeta was consistent with prior showings of Super Saiyans.

And that still gave him a gigantic sized idiot ball by letting Cell go perfect. But Vegeta by himself would be alright, but almost every other character in the Cell arc had to act like an idiot in order for the plot to move. Goku and friends were aware of Gero and how he and android 19 killed them all in the future, but just decide to let them go? Its a good thing Future Trunks wasn't there or he'd have a heart attack of his own!

Krillin doesn't kill android 18 for reasons?

Piccolo doesn't just clobber android 20? For reasons? Especially considering he's stronger than him?

Vegeta's character is in line with battle-frenzy pure-blooded Saiyans, as evidenced by SSJ Goku allowing Freeza to reach full power when he could kill him at any time while he powers up. Kuririn had a crush on #18, and even wondered if they weren't really evil - which was emphasized in #16's dialogue to the twins before facing Cell. And Piccolo cut off #20's arm and was about to finish him off when Trunks and Bulma arrived on the scene, read the manga again.

Goku doesn't take the heart medicine?

This was explained in the manga. He didn't have symptoms. Whether it's because him getting in better physical shape than in the future timeline through heavier training, or timeline changes caused by Trunks and Cell's arrivals, I don't know and I doubt does.

Gohan doesn't want to kill now? Since when?

And don't get me started with how Toriyama's editors ended up making the arc more and more convoluted and forced Toriyama to revise the main villains three times. Each time getting more and more convoluted and half baked.

Now this I will happily grant. Gohan not wanting to kill Cell really can't be explained in any other way but "lol but I hit puberty too quick and now I'm an emotionally distressed pussay" and the villain changing was egregious. Still, I'd say GT's earlier episodes and their repetitive, Oolong and Androids/Cell ripoff structure along with the protagonists missing like 3 opportunities to kill Baby in his infant form before he arrived on Earth are just as egregious, not to mention more boring.

Future Trunks ended the Cell arc tied as the third strongest Z Senshi after Gohan and the deceased Goku, and killed not only Freeza but all of Gero's creations and saved the world multiple times in the process. GT Trunks' biggest feat was... tricking Dr. Myu with Gill's help. You are just parroting CC's old argument that Trunks is as useless as Kaioshin, even though he showed the most promise of any of the half-breeds by continuing to train to uphold peace, and going in the RoSaT twice. GT Trunks showed basically no such progress, his greatest accomplishment being pounding on Oozaru Baby's face a little bit when he gave him those free hits

Being the third strongest in the Cell arc matters little when number 1 and number 2 of the Z senshi are both lightyears ahead of you. Trunks was a messenger with a cool entrance, about as useful as Kaioshin was (except that Kaioshin managed to become more useful in subsequent stories with his knowledge and powers). Past his fight with Freeza he's constantly painted as an almost bumbling fool who constantly underestimates how strong the next threat is. He trains with Vegeta, unlocks a useless form (that establishes how he's a horrible fighter) and he dies against Cell. It doesn't matter that he's the third strongest Z Senshi because everything he does is lame as shit.

Trunks' background makes his inexperience in strategizing explainable, considering he only had another inexperienced Saiyan to train with, and even he died by the time Trunks was 13. And you're forgetting that Trunks not only was equal to Vegeta (who's always been just behind Goku) but was the voice of reason in both the fight against Semi-Perfect Cell and in the Cell Game, where he was the only one who suggested healing Goku and just ganging up on a weakened Cell. Kaioshin is so bad at reading his opponents that he was scared of PuiPui and didn't even act proactive enough to just take Gohan's energy back from Lord :bitch and Yamu before they can hand it to Babidi, especially when his buddy Kibito can literally teleport between planets without a ki signal to home in on

You're also not addressing the fact that the last chapter of the manga and Episode 291 of Z both illustrate Oob as Goku's one true successor in defending the Earth, yet Oob escaped irrelevance for two whole episodes before being swallowed by Baby and then going on to be as useless as tits on a bull.

Or more accurately that the real reason why Goku even bothered wishing back Uub was so he could have a good fight. We're also getting ahead of ourselves with the future of GT, since I'm talking about the Baby arc here.

Motherfucker I know for a fact that you know the plot of the next two arcs, who you trying to fool?

 

[SSJ2]

Prepare for Badly Animated Seru and Furiiiiza next ep

 

[Papasmurf]

I'd kill myself if I were ever forced to watch the Super 17 arc again lol

 

[SSJ2]

I'd kill myself if I were ever forced to watch the Super 17 arc again lol

Would you rather rewatch the S17 arc once or be forced to watch this for 6 months in a row?

Spoiler

 

[Papasmurf]

Episode 5 Beebus is a work of art, mayn. It's so terrifically bad that it's insanely good.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]