Goku (vs Freeza)

[Super Neko Majin Z]

Honestly, it's useless to rate DBZ characters with actual numbers because there's no way to prove how much they've grown at any time. All you can do is compare them to each other.

 

[freezamite]

The feat of Goku Base (Boo) with the dumbbells is stuffed with Anime, therefore the manga never holds that.

No, that feat is from the manga. DBZ chapter 234:
http://mangalife.org/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-234-index-2-page-10.html

Right, completely forget that scene. But even so, the feats of weight do not think they are linear.

In DB they were always pretty linear. Goku had more than 8.000 when he mastered the 10G gravity, and 90.000 after he mastered the 100G.

Honestly, it's useless to rate DBZ characters with actual numbers because there's no way to prove how much they've grown at any time. All you can do is compare them to each other.

The manga always provides ways to compare them even between sagas, like for example the 40 tons feat or comments the characters make.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

What do you think base Goku's power level is?

 

[freezamite]

What do you think base Goku's power level is?

Between 300.000 and 400.000

 

[xmysticgohanx]

But isn't that under 1st form Freeza?

 

[freezamite]

But isn't that under 1st form Freeza?

Yes, although I've always considered 1st form Freezer to be the strongest one. He is weaker than any form of Freezer in my opinion.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

Why would first form Freeza be the strongest?

That would mean Vegeta pre Zenkai > Vegeta post Zenkai

The whole arc doesn't make sense that way

 

[p123]

This guys is a fucking retard. Ban his dumb ass. Too stupid.

 

[Future Warrior]

lmao

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Lol at First Form Freeza being the strongest.

 

[freezamite]

Why would first form Freeza be the strongest?

That would mean Vegeta pre Zenkai > Vegeta post Zenkai

The whole arc doesn't make sense that way

What? No, that's not what I mean. Freezer's first form is his strongest form, and then he transforms in order to control his strength. The first time we see him, he's in his weakest form (in other words, his fourth form).

This guys is a fucking retard. Ban his dumb ass. Too stupid.

Look, every single time you've tried to discuss with me you've been completely humilliated to say the least. Stop it, you have proven multiple times you're a complete ignorant when it comes to Dragon Ball lol

Lol at First Form Freeza being the strongest.

It's not my fault you haven't read the manga. Freezer's original form is the strongest one, he actually transforms to control his powers, unlike nearly any other being in Dragon Ball.
And by the way, that's not only explained in the manga, in the anime it was also explained.

 

[Future Warrior]

How delusional are you? His 4th form is his original form, and he created the first 3 forms to suppress his power.

 

[freezamite]

How delusional are you? His 4th form is his original form, and he created the first 3 forms to suppress his power.

Your opinion. To me that's as if one says the SSJ3 is the first level of SSJ only because he's started to read the manga in the Bu saga.
I understood what he meant when he said first form freezer, but if we're faithful to the series, Freezer's first form is his original form, and then the more he transforms the farther from "first form" his form becomes.
And by the way, those forms weren't "created", they were natural from his species. Freezer was from a specie with abnormally high power levels (and Freezer was abnormally strong even by his species's standards) that transformed in order to save energies.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

So do you think the first Freeza we see is the strongest?

 

[Diamond Ryan]

So you meant True Form Freeza when you said First Form Freeza? That would make a lot more sense.

 

[Six Trails]

How delusional are you? His 4th form is his original form, and he created the first 3 forms to suppress his power.

Your opinion.

No, it's blatantly stated.

Chapter: 296 (DBZ 102), P1.3-4
Vegeta: “Among aliens, there are sometimes guys who change their appearance as the need arises…For things like camouflage, or to not deplete their energy…”
Freeza: “In my case it’s different…It’s because my power is too excessive, so that even I can’t properly control it…”

 

[SIAD]

No, that feat is from the manga. DBZ chapter 234:
http://mangalife.org/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-234-index-2-page-10.html

Right, completely forget that scene. But even so, the feats of weight do not think they are linear.

In DB they were always pretty linear. Goku had more than 8.000 when he mastered the 10G gravity, and 90.000 after he mastered the 100G.

Honestly, it's useless to rate DBZ characters with actual numbers because there's no way to prove how much they've grown at any time. All you can do is compare them to each other.

The manga always provides ways to compare them even between sagas, like for example the 40 tons feat or comments the characters make.

With this logic, the maximum power that Vegeta had (Mecha Freezer) was 450,000, because Vegeta hardly controlled the gravity of 450,000 times greater than that of Earth. However Vegeta's power (Vs First Form Freezer) was around 500,000. Later Vegeta gets a Zenkai Power, which leaves him much more powerful than Freezer Third Form at least.

 

[freezamite]

So you meant True Form Freeza when you said First Form Freeza? That would make a lot more sense.

Yes. Freeza's default form is the strongest one, that's why you call it "true form Freeza". For Freeza, that would be his first form, and from here on he transforms in order to reduce his power and have a better control of it.

No, it's blatantly stated.

Chapter: 296 (DBZ 102), P1.3-4
Vegeta: “Among aliens, there are sometimes guys who change their appearance as the need arises…For things like camouflage, or to not deplete their energy…”
Freeza: “In my case it’s different…It’s because my power is too excessive, so that even I can’t properly control it…”

Exactly, its BLATANTLY STATED THAT HIS STRONGEST FORM IS HIS TRUE FORM, AND THAT HE TRANSFORMS TO WEAKER FORMS IN ORDER TO CONTROL HIS POWER.
So, in other words, Freezer's real first form is his strongest form, it can't be that difficult to understand what I'm saying...

With this logic, the maximum power that Vegeta had (Mecha Freezer) was 450,000, because Vegeta hardly controlled the gravity of 450,000 times greater than that of Earth.

I think you mean 450 times greater, but I don't know where you're grabbing this from. Where is it stated that Vegeta couldn't resist the 450G or that this was his maximum limit?

 

[Tapion]

It's difficult to understand because you're TRYING to make it difficult to understand. You know very well what we're talking about when we say "4th Form Freeza", but you still try to complicate things and spark debates by referring to 4th Form Freeza as "First Form Freeza" in your posts despite the fact not ONE official source calls him that, with extremely rare and obscure exceptions.

 

[freezamite]

It's difficult to understand because you're TRYING to make it difficult to understand. You know very well what we're talking about when we say "4th Form Freeza", but you still try to complicate things and spark debates by referring to 4th Form Freeza as "First Form Freeza" in your posts despite the fact not ONE official source calls him that, with extremely rare and obscure exceptions.

Do you say I'm making this difficult to understand? I think that from my first message it's obvious what I'm saying. The problem is that p123 is so desperate to find contradictions in what I say that he (like he ever does) jumped to (wrong) conclusions.

I know you count Freezer transformations in the opposite way and I'm fine with it as long as you don't forget that Freezer transforms in order to lose power, because I've already seen a lot of people saying that "Cold couldn't transform and get stronger" -not realizing that Cold was already transformed, so of course he could distransform- or things like that.