If Vegetto SSJB (Arc Zamasu / Anime) power is 100 What level do you give the following characters?

[SIAD]

Yeah, that’s how suppression works.




Shouldn’t that be the same power level Jiren used against UI Sign Goku? If Jiren can push the Genki-Dama with a glare, then so can UIO Goku.

Yes, but the Spirit Bomb was pushed by Jiren's gaze and not by the whole body.

It's as if Jiren (Suppressed against UI Sign Goku) had a power of 100 and when pushing the Genk-idama with his gaze, he would only push it with a force of 40.

 

[Goku9001]

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I really don’t see how Kefla being a trigger can mean much since she’s weaker than Jiren.

Yet he is still apart of the equation. He clearly didn't use anywhere near his "full power" to push back the Genkidama. He merely kept it in place in response to the force Goku was using. The scan you presented only serves to prove it since the Genkidama Goku bathed in i.e the explosion was a result of Jiren's energy regardless.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yes, but the Spirit Bomb was pushed by Jiren's gaze and not by the whole body.

It's as if Jiren (Suppressed against UI Sign Goku) had a power of 100 and when pushing the Genk-idama with his gaze, he would only push it with a force of 40.

But they should know his power is 100 right? Everybody knew Vegeta was a big deal when he killed a Saibaman with two fingers.

Also I’m not sure if Goku’s power should be included. He reverts to base and falls in the Genki-Dama, so he’s no longer applying pressure to the Genki-Dama when he falls in it.

Yet he is still apart of the equation. He clearly didn't use anywhere near his "full power" to push back the Genkidama. He merely kept it in place in response to the force Goku was using. The scan you presented only serves to prove it since the Genkidama Goku bathed in i.e the explosion was a result of Jiren's energy regardless.

He’s literally not though. He’s an external force. Are Freeza or Kid Boo’s powers part of the Genki-Dama’s explosions because they were trying to push it? Of course not.

 

[SIAD]

But they should know his power is 100 right? Everybody knew Vegeta was a big deal when he killed a Saibaman with two fingers.

Also I’m not sure if Goku’s power should be included. He reverts to base and falls in the Genki-Dama, so he’s no longer applying pressure to the Genki-Dama when he falls in it.



He’s literally not though. He’s an external force. Are Freeza or Kid Boo’s powers part of the Genki-Dama’s explosions because they were trying to push it? Of course not.

Excellent point. The only thing that makes noise to me is that the Genkidama has increased considerably in size while Jiren and Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 attacks collided.

I think it's fair to say that the power of the Genkidama ends up being equivalent to the power of Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Genkidama).

 

[SIAD]

The Genkidama didn't get stronger even a little bit. It's just as you say @GreatSaiyaman123 What Jiren did was just slowly return the Spirit Bomb to Goku, but without expelling an energy attack.

Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Genki-dama) may be much stronger than the Genkidama itself, just like Goku SSJ with the Genkidama against Kid Boo is much stronger than the normal Genkidama due to the pushing force. It is very different for someone with a power of 1 to cast a Genkidama, than a person with a power of 100 to cast the same Spankidama.

And as GSY mentions, Goku fell on the Genkidama, when it was no longer moving.

That at some point the Genkidama increased in size, only shows that it was about to explode.

Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Genkidama) >>> Genkidama = Kefla SSJ (Peak).

 

[Goku9001]

But they should know his power is 100 right? Everybody knew Vegeta was a big deal when he killed a Saibaman with two fingers.

Also I’m not sure if Goku’s power should be included. He reverts to base and falls in the Genki-Dama, so he’s no longer applying pressure to the Genki-Dama when he falls in it.



He’s literally not though. He’s an external force. Are Freeza or Kid Boo’s powers part of the Genki-Dama’s explosions because they were trying to push it? Of course not.

Horrible example. The Genkidama exploded because it made contact with Kid Buu and completely overwhelmed him. The Genkidama exploded on Goku because it was explicitly expanding as a result of both of their powers.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Horrible example. The Genkidama exploded because it made contact with Kid Buu and completely overwhelmed him. The Genkidama exploded on Goku because it was explicitly expanding as a result of both of their powers.

Goku is on the receiving end of it just like Boo here, and both Boo and Freeza were trying to push back the Genki-Dama too. Difference is that they actually tried to push back into it blew up, Goku collapsed and fell in it.

The Genki-Dama was getting smaller and then bigger before becoming some sort of small blackhole(?) before exploding, so unless you’re gonna tell me it was losing and then gaining power the size had nothing to do with it. Goku and Jiren were compressing it by pushing from opposite sides until it gave in and blew up in Goku’s face as he lost energy.

 

[Goku9001]

Goku is on the receiving end of it just like Boo here, and both Boo and Freeza were trying to push back the Genki-Dama too. Difference is that they actually tried to push back into it blew up, Goku collapsed and fell in it.

The Genki-Dama was getting smaller and then bigger before becoming some sort of small blackhole(?) before exploding, so unless you’re gonna tell me it was losing and then gaining power the size had nothing to do with it. Goku and Jiren were compressing it by pushing from opposite sides until it gave in and blew up in Goku’s face as he lost energy.

They never triggered a chain reaction. The reason why the Genkidama exploded onto them is because they couldn't exert enough of a force to push it back, so it eventually overwhelmed them and detonated as it engulfed its target.

This is patently wrong. Even when the Genkidama is being compressed temporarily, we are blatantly shown two opposing forces pressing against the Genkidama before it expanded significantly beyond what it once was. Even if you ignore Vados' statement, we are visually shown the affect both Jiren and Goku have on the Genkidama. Afterwards, we see the Genkidama just expand continuously. It remains in the same place, yet it shines brighter on the contestants and eventually on the audience as well which means that it must have expanded as it drew closer to everyone surrounding it.

Here is what Vados has to say.

Episode 110
Time: 5:41-5:52
Context: Champa notices something odd as the Genkidama shines brighter on the audience.
Champa: Doesn't that look a little dangerous?
Vados: The expansion of the energy caught between their force is reaching its limit.

In the end, there is a black hole effect but it's clear that it was the moment when the energy dispersed everywhere resulting in the explosion. Regardless, Vados makes it clear that the Genkidama was slowly expanding beyond its limits which was a result of their force i.e both Jiren and Goku's.

 

[Goku9001]

The Genkidama didn't get stronger even a little bit. It's just as you say @GreatSaiyaman123 What Jiren did was just slowly return the Spirit Bomb to Goku, but without expelling an energy attack.

Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Genki-dama) may be much stronger than the Genkidama itself, just like Goku SSJ with the Genkidama against Kid Boo is much stronger than the normal Genkidama due to the pushing force. It is very different for someone with a power of 1 to cast a Genkidama, than a person with a power of 100 to cast the same Spankidama.

And as GSY mentions, Goku fell on the Genkidama, when it was no longer moving.

That at some point the Genkidama increased in size, only shows that it was about to explode.

Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Genkidama) >>> Genkidama = Kefla SSJ (Peak)

Yes and in those examples, we clearly don't see the Genkidama's energy intensifying so it's a false equivalence you guys are making here.

 

[SIAD]

@Papasmurf

Everything discussed here, we have deduced that the Genkidama reaches the power of the sum of powers between Jiren (Suppressed against Goku) + Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Genkidama)?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Here is what Vados has to say.

Episode 110
Time: 5:41-5:52
Context: Champa notices something odd as the Genkidama shines brighter on the audience.
Champa: Doesn't that look a little dangerous?
Vados: The expansion of the energy caught between their force is reaching its limit.

In the end, there is a black hole effect but it's clear that it was the moment when the energy dispersed everywhere resulting in the explosion. Regardless, Vados makes it clear that the Genkidama was slowly expanding beyond its limits which was a result of their force i.e both Jiren and Goku's.

Exactly. The Genki-Dama was being squeezed and expanded, but only in size as it grew unstable. Goku and Jiren essentially playing hot potato with it does not make it stronger, it’s not a snowball.

 

[Goku9001]

Exactly. The Genki-Dama was being squeezed and expanded, but only in size as it grew unstable. Goku and Jiren essentially playing hot potato with it does not make it stronger, it’s not a snowball.

It's pretty clear what happened. The energy of the Genkidama intensified hence Champa's concern. Bigger explosions mean more power.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It's pretty clear what happened.

My brother in Christ that sequence is all but clear they made Ki ball turn into a fucking blackhole that blew up and Goku absorbed it

 

[SIAD]

@Animelover5487

What do you think about the Genkidama? Does it get stronger?

 

[Animelover5487]

After rewatching episode 110, I am actually leaning on it getting stronger. The Dakaishin said that the Genkidama's power swelled and expanded from Goku and Jiren's tug a war.

 

[Goku9001]

My brother in Christ that sequence is all but clear they made Ki ball turn into a fucking blackhole that blew up and Goku absorbed it

We literally see the Genkidama swelling up and expanding much greater beyond its limits from two opposing forces and yet you still deny it. Vados makes it clear what had happened. She blatantly states that the energy expanded which means that the energy had grown stronger. Energy expanding = more energy = stronger. Basic logic.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

We literally see the Genkidama swelling up and expanding much greater beyond its limits from two opposing forces and yet you still deny it. Vados makes it clear what had happened. She blatantly states that the energy expanded which means that the energy had grown stronger. Energy expanding = more energy = stronger. Basic logic.

But who’s putting more Genki there? Goku is pretty clearly pushing it, in fact the pressure he’s exerting is why probably what’s keeping him afloat. Jiren obviously isn’t giving it power either. What’s going on here?

The way I’m seeing it the Genki-Dama was getting smaller from the squeeze and reacting big getting even bigger and was about to fall apart until Jiren finally made it collapse on itself.

 

[Goku9001]

But who’s putting more Genki there? Goku is pretty clearly pushing it, in fact the pressure he’s exerting is why probably what’s keeping him afloat. Jiren obviously isn’t giving it power either. What’s going on here?

The way I’m seeing it the Genki-Dama was getting smaller from the squeeze and reacting big getting even bigger and was about to fall apart until Jiren finally made it collapse on itself.

It fell apart because the energy expanded beyond its limits. That's explicitly stated.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So you don’t know what made the energy expand?

 

[Goku9001]

So you don’t know what made the energy expand?

It was from their forces pressing against the Genkidama. As they pushed harder, it caused the Genkidama to expand even further. Once KKx20 Blue Goku pushes as hard as he can in response to Jiren is when it finally bursts. Their increased powers clearly had an impact on the energy expanding.