Misc.

[ahill1]

That close? Hmm, I don't know...

Yes, at first I thought not, but after re-reading several times I came to the conclusion that Goten is really close to Gohan. Hell, I wanted to leave Chibi Trunks SSJ at 88% of Vegeta SSJ based on the latter having a really tough time to dodge the punches of his son.

Pre Budokai

Son Goten 84
Chibi Trunks 88
Son Gohan 88
Vegeta 100

Looks about right, but Goten should be at least 88-90% of Gohan imo.

 

[p123]

Then how come Gohan doesn't think Goten is ready for the Budokai yet? I think the sparring sessions are overstated. Goku isn't really impressed by their top power either.

 

[ahill1]

Yea... your actual gap is fine. Your list is pretty damn good.

 

[ahill1]

I don't know about Kaioshin being stronger than Goku SSJ (Cell games)...

 

[p123]

Do you think Ssj Goku can do anything to Fat Buu?

 

[SSJ2]

I think you should include two battle powers for Kaioshin. One for his ki level and one for his psychic power level. Ki level is suggested to be very weak.

 

[p123]

I'm going with the, Kaioshin's is just a bitch, its a hype up the Saiyans kind of bullshit going on. Kaioshin who fights Buu and stops Gohan is a beast.

 

[SSJ2]

Kaioshin never used ki against Boo though.

Durability feats have never been consistent in judging power.

 

[ahill1]

I'd not have Kaioshin stronger than the base saiyans. I'm going with Piccolo >>> base saiyans >>> Kaioshin.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I see no reason to differentiate Kaioshin's levels. He said it was hard holding Gohan in place, which is pretty much a direct correlation to his own power.

 

[SSJ2]

I don't see magic as a correlation to ki power, I think it's its own entity personally. I'm not denying that he is powerful (I think high Super Saiyan tier), I just think when it comes to battle, he gets bested by the Base Saiyans without magic.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Where is it stated Kaioshin uses magic?

I think that's downplaying Kaioshin, personally. That's just how he fights. He doesn't appear to be an H2H expert by any means, but as long as his style of fighting can obliterate any Base Saiyan, that's all that matters.

 

[SSJ2]

The Daizenshuu calls his attack "Paralysis Arts", which doesn't seems to be ki related to me. General Blue is also listed as a user for it, and he was capable of paralyzing people much stronger than himself. Seems to be some sort of magic if you ask me.

Also, the reason why I'd give him a different battle power for magical ability is because of Dabra's magic. His magic is what made Goku say that he's tougher than they thought, not his actual fighting. I see Kaioshin the same way.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

That's only one attack, though. His Kiai Eyes and Shockwave abilities are listed under Ki-Manipulation, so that tells us he indeed uses Chi in his attacks.

 

[SSJ2]

The description for Shockwave says that no ki is used though... Did he ever use that specific attack?

I'll give you the Kiai Eyes, that's undeniable, I still don't think that one incident says a whole lot about his power though. For example, if he could make Boo budge with his kiai, why didn't he just obliterate Pocus with it? Also, this would almsot require Kaioshin to be high SSJ2 tier, as that's the closest that I could see someone being to budge Boo (when he puts up a defense).

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I believe that's the first attack he used after Boo knocked Gohan down. The attack with his hand.

Personally, I just think he was too caught up in the Saiyans enjoying themselves. He had no choice but to fight when Boo was staring him down, but that same urgency wasn't present when the Saiyans were all around. I'd like to think that Kiai Eyes would blow Pui-Pui to bits considering he had no issue completely destroying Boo's attack with it.

Kaioshin doesn't have many feats to go on, but I just don't see any Base Saiyan putting up anywhere near the resistance Kaioshin did to Fat Boo. Boo was actually trying to end Kaioshin before Bobbidi told him to stop. I like having Kaioshin in the middle of Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta has resisted several blows of a stronger Majin Boo ( Chibi Boo ).

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Except Kid Boo was holding-back. Unless he hit Hercule with his all, too.

 

[ahill1]

Except Kid Boo was holding-back. Unless he hit Hercule with his all, too.

Except Fat Boo was still holding back... and nothing says that Chibi Boo was holding back.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Bobbidi told Fat Boo to kill Kaioshin and Gohan. Therefore, he was trying to kill them.

Did Kid Boo hold-back against Hercule?

Kiai Eyes would decimate any Base Saiyan.