Misc.

[p123]

Yea, it's pretty clear. No one can sense Kibito or Kaioshin, Piccolo's comments are directly about Kaioshin's status, not power as we can tell by Kaioshin mentioning Piccolo's conclusion of who he is, not how strong he is.

Man, how is this issue not put to bed?

 

[Lightsworn]

[No message]

 

[Six Trails]

It's not "put to bed" because you're using your own subjective interpretation to try and discredit a direct statement.

Lets see one example of the same quote being used in a non-power way, and then I'll concede.

 

[p123]

Our dimensions are too different doesn't have to be a power quote. Nothing suggests that Piccolo sensed Kaioshin's power other than if you choose to interpret it that way. The surrounding context seems to directly go against that.

As you can see, Piccolo is wondering who he is, not how strong he is. Kaioshin tells him he will find out soon and then it's all over.

The context is clear. The people taking this as a power statement are being stubborn imo, but so be it.

 

[Lightsworn]

Our dimensions are too different doesn't have to be a power quote. Nothing suggests that Piccolo sensed Kaioshin's power other than if you choose to interpret it that way. The surrounding context seems to directly go against that.

As you can see, Piccolo is wondering who he is, not how strong he is. Kaioshin tells him he will find out soon and then it's all over.

The context is clear. The people taking this as a power statement are being stubborn imo, but so be it.

The context starts with Vegeta questioning how strong Kaioshin is. We get out answer at the end.

Goku questions "THAT much, Piccolo?" That much godliness? No. It's factually a power statement.

 

[ahill1]

Yea definetely agree with p123 here.

 

[Six Trails]

If you're not going to change your mind, then I don't see a point in continuing this. We just seem to be going in circles over your interpretation of the context.

 

[Kyo]

Lets see one example of the same quote being used in a non-power way

I don't understand why this precedence argument is a thing. It's a good way to reinforce an assertion but it is in no way necessary. There are firsts, and there are things that happen once and never again. It all depends on the circumstances of the story at different points. The Babidi arc is the only time for instance that a character compares a new villain to an old one by saying "I don't know how strong he is but he might be this strong." Go figure.

An interpretation is subjective by nature btw. What are you getting at there?

 

[p123]

Damn Mike is pissing me off. You are better than this.

In the anime, the whole issue is Piccolo's power is failing him, he cannot bring himself to attack Kaioshin, even though he doesn't know him and never met him, he cannot bring himself to go after him.

He doesn't understand why, Kaioshin reads his mind and tells him he will find out soon enough, this freaks out Piccolo and he quits.

Kaioshin literally says that Piccolo must of got a sense of WHO HE WAS, being the reason why he quit.

Mike if you can't get this you are fucking shot.

 

[p123]

@ Lightsworn

Of course the others assume it's power. What else would they assume. Piccolo says yes but he is still unsure of exactly what had happened. He's not going to sit there talking about the situation when he is that flustered. He tells them yes and keeps it moving.

After he gathers his thoughts he is able to bring himself to ask Kaioshin who he is.


You are seeing power statements where there are none.

 

[Kyo]

Chill a little.

I can see where Mike's coming from with his opinion...more or less. I just need to figure out the nuances of his approach to this versus ours.

 

[Lightsworn]

@ Lightsworn

Of course the others assume it's power. What else would they assume. Piccolo says yes but he is still unsure of exactly what had happened. He's not going to sit there talking about the situation when he is that flustered. He tells them yes and keeps it moving.

After he gathers his thoughts he is able to bring himself to ask Kaioshin who he is.


You are seeing power statements where there are none.

Once again that is conjecture. You need to provide evidence that Piccolo is lying here. Piccolo could just say "No. I'll talk about it later."

Sure, Piccolo started to realize who he was, but it was never state that was the ONLY thing Piccolo realized. Why can't Piccolo realize that his strength and his status? Kaioshin makes note of his status because that is more important than his power.

 

[p123]

He and Lightsworn are taking the most basic approach here. Oh, it looks like a power statement, so let's throw context out and just assume it is. In other words, pure faggotry.

When Piccolo quits, Goku and others are indeed asking for a power reading. Piccolo answers in a way that quickly gets them out of his hair as he is unsure of exactly what the situation is and is not the type to go hamstering around.

 

[p123]

Because the Lord of Worlds said so. Kaioshin says he must have got a sense of WHO I AM, not HOW POWERFUL I AM.

 

[Lightsworn]

I asked for evidence that Piccolo is lying P. You saying it isn't proof.

 

[p123]

This is why Viz specifically words it in the way they do. Viz translators aren't some run of the mill fans who translate things. They are focused on getting the proper context across. To remain with the flow of the story. This is why they use " a different order of being " instead of " our dimensions are too different ", the first being a better play on words on answering their questions while still holding onto the truth himself.

 

[Kyo]

The issue with this thing is that going with one side often raises a number of questions.

Let's break down a few things. First off, it's been established that, so far, the only way to gauge power is by chi sensing, watching movement, or using a scouter-like device. We good here?

Up until Piccolo's match, according to Vegeta, they haven't even been able to estimate Kaioshin's power. That's interesting, seeing as how Goku did just that with Dabura after seeing him move once in a suppressed state. It's safe to say that they feel some kind of life force from Kaioshin as they don't note any lifelessness from him as they do Spopobitch, but even then they're clueless.

Anyway, Piccolo steps into the ring with Kaioshin and - this is important - he notes that he "can't" fight this guy and can't figure out why for the life of him. At this point, at the very least, it has nothing to do with power, as far as we can tell.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Kaioshin thinks that Piccolo is figuring out who he is and tells him some shit like "you'll know soon." Piccolo flips out and quits.

To connect a few more dots: Kaioshin read Piccolo's mind and saw that Piccolo is thinking about his identity. To this, he speaks as though Piccolo has spoken out loud and says whatever cryptic trash he said, like he's responding. Piccolo, in response, freaks and quits. Weirdo...but you see the lines I just drew here, right?

Let's establish something important. What I just did is called a close reading. Or something like that. Okay, maybe not in the most literal sense, but it's close enough. You could say that I'm taking this kids comic way too seriously. Of course, if you actually tell me that then I'll just leave you here with p123. I just don't want people telling me I'm full of conjecture or whatever over something like this. Feels like a buzzword now, no offense.

Question #1: Where did power come into play in all that? If you think I left something out on purpose, feel free to point it out and I might concede this point.

Question #2: Does Piccolo have some way of sensing a Kaioshin's power that all of the others don't? Is it because of his Kami side or something? How do you figure, if so? (I hereby give p123 the right to use the term "conjecture" as liberally as possible for me here...jk )

I got carried away so I'll leave with this as I go to take a shower: how does Goku take this information? He seems expectant that Piccolo figured something out. Sounds like something that helps your case, eh?

I apologize for the length, folks >

Edit: Any perceived condescension is all casual jest. We're all friends here.

 

[ahill1]

The issue with this thing is that going with one side often raises a number of questions.

Let's break down a few things. First off, it's been established that, so far, the only way to gauge power is by chi sensing, watching movement, or using a scouter-like device. We good here?

Up until Piccolo's match, according to Vegeta, they haven't even been able to estimate Kaioshin's power. That's interesting, seeing as how Goku did just that with Dabura after seeing him move once in a suppressed state. It's safe to say that they feel some kind of life force from Kaioshin as they don't note any lifelessness from him as they do Spopobitch, but even then they're clueless.

Anyway, Piccolo steps into the ring with Kaioshin and - this is important - he notes that he "can't" fight this guy and can't figure out why for the life of him. At this point, at the very least, it has nothing to do with power, as far as we can tell.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Kaioshin thinks that Piccolo is figuring out who he is and tells him some shit like "you'll know soon." Piccolo flips out and quits.

To connect a few more dots: Kaioshin read Piccolo's mind and saw that Piccolo is thinking about his identity. To this, he speaks as though Piccolo has spoken out loud and says whatever cryptic trash he said, like he's responding. Piccolo, in response, freaks and quits. Weirdo...but you see the lines I just drew here, right?

Let's establish something important. What I just did is called a close reading. Or something like that. Okay, maybe not in the most literal sense, but it's close enough. You could say that I'm taking this kids comic way too seriously. Of course, if you actually tell me that then I'll just leave you here with p123. I just don't want people telling me I'm full of conjecture or whatever over something like this. Feels like a buzzword now, no offense.

Question #1: Where did power come into play in all that? If you think I left something out on purpose, feel free to point it out and I might concede this point.

Question #2: Does Piccolo have some way of sensing a Kaioshin's power that all of the others don't? Is it because of his Kami side or something? How do you figure, if so? (I hereby give p123 the right to use the term "conjecture" as liberally as possible for me here...jk )

I got carried away so I'll leave with this as I go to take a shower: how does Goku take this information? He seems expectant that Piccolo figured something out. Sounds like something that helps your case, eh?

I apologize for the length, folks >

Edit: Any perceived condescension is all casual jest. We're all friends here.

What do you think about "Our dimensions are too different"? Don't you think is a power statement?

 

[Kyo]

Sure, it's a power statement. He's responding to a question about power, after all.

 

[ahill1]

Sure, it's a power statement. He's responding to a question about power, after all.

But do you think that means Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo.