Misc.

[SSJ2]

Yep. Why would Kaioshin be thinking to himself "he may have figured out who I am"? Do you know what gives away what he is? The fact that he has no ki to sense.

 

[Six Trails]

There's nothing about power here? Which is why the quote used for Piccolo has referred to power in every other instance it's been used? You can act oblivious to the intent if you truly wish, but why would Toriyama use the same line that's used exclusively used for power in every instance it's used if he wants to convey that Kaioshin is weaker than Piccolo? Why not just have Piccolo say that Kaioshin is a god?

 

[SSJ2]

There's nothing about power here? Which is why the quote used for Piccolo has referred to power in every other instance it's been used? You can act oblivious to the intent if you truly wish, but why would Toriyama use the same line that's used exclusively used for power in every instance it's used if he wants to convey that Kaioshin is weaker than Piccolo? Why not just have Piccolo say that Kaioshin is a god?

Piccolo didn't want anyone to know who Kaioshin was if I recall correctly. This may be anime only, but I recall Kaioshin telling Piccolo not to say anything about his status after he revealed it.

 

[ahill1]

[No message]

 

[Lightsworn]

There's nothing about power here? Which is why the quote used for Piccolo has referred to power in every other instance it's been used? You can act oblivious to the intent if you truly wish, but why would Toriyama use the same line that's used exclusively used for power in every instance it's used if he wants to convey that Kaioshin is weaker than Piccolo? Why not just have Piccolo say that Kaioshin is a god?

Piccolo didn't want anyone to know who Kaioshin was if I recall correctly. This may be anime only, but I recall Kaioshin telling Piccolo not to say anything about his status after he revealed it.

Yet Piccolo still ended up revealing his identity to everyone without Kaioshin's consent. He never states he wants to hide his identity anyway, it's just conjecture. .

 

[Six Trails]

Not in VIZ' translation. In VIZ Kaioshin tells Piccolo to enjoy the match for now and that Piccolo will eventually find out. Funny that the main argument is Piccolo backing down "out of respect" when conceding and not enjoying the match is going against Kaioshin's wishes and not respectful.

 

[p123]

Yes Kaioshin confirms that Piccolo is not talking about power.

 

[ahill1]

There's nothing about power here? Which is why the quote used for Piccolo has referred to power in every other instance it's been used? You can act oblivious to the intent if you truly wish, but why would Toriyama use the same line that's used exclusively used for power in every instance it's used if he wants to convey that Kaioshin is weaker than Piccolo? Why not just have Piccolo say that Kaioshin is a god?

Outer Z had a huge explanation about it:

Outer Z’s explanation for this was that, while Piccolo does tell Goku that Kaioshin is much stronger than him, he’s really only lying so that he won’t have to explain Kaioshin’s identity.

 

[SSJ2]

ahill brings up a good point. Kaioshin was overestimated due to status. Piccolo backing down may be due to power, but it does not mean he knows how strong Kaioshin is.

 

[Six Trails]

Outer Z had a huge explanation about it:

Outer Z’s explanation for this was that, while Piccolo does tell Goku that Kaioshin is much stronger than him, he’s really only lying so that he won’t have to explain Kaioshin’s identity.

So in other words, conjecture. Where is the objective evidence that Piccolo is stronger than Kaioshin?

 

[ahill1]

There's nothing about power here? Which is why the quote used for Piccolo has referred to power in every other instance it's been used? You can act oblivious to the intent if you truly wish, but why would Toriyama use the same line that's used exclusively used for power in every instance it's used if he wants to convey that Kaioshin is weaker than Piccolo? Why not just have Piccolo say that Kaioshin is a god?

Piccolo didn't want anyone to know who Kaioshin was if I recall correctly. This may be anime only, but I recall Kaioshin telling Piccolo not to say anything about his status after he revealed it.

Yet Piccolo still ended up revealing his identity to everyone without Kaioshin's consent. He never states he wants to hide his identity anyway, it's just conjecture. .

Because Piccolo still wasn't sure about who Kaioshin was; He wanted to check first with Kaioshin before giving any solid response to Goku and the others.

 

[SSJ2]

Outer Z had a huge explanation about it:

Outer Z’s explanation for this was that, while Piccolo does tell Goku that Kaioshin is much stronger than him, he’s really only lying so that he won’t have to explain Kaioshin’s identity.

So in other words, conjecture. Where is the objective evidence that Piccolo is stronger than Kaioshin?

The evidence is that the Base Saiyans are not stronger than Piccolo, unless you want to retcon Piccolo's strength which is conjecture.

 

[SSJ2]

Why is it always p's power level lists that get hundreds of replies? haha

 

[ahill1]

Yea what Super Saiyan said; Piccolo is not that weaker than Vegeta and Trunks in the Cell Games, that is, way stroger than the base Saiyans.

East Kaioshin was implied to be weaker than the saiyans base, so weaker than Piccolo.

Why Kaioshin is weaker than base Saiyans?

Well There are a lot of things, but here are a few reasons:

First, when Kaioshin meets Goku and co., he admits that he doesn't think he can beat Goku.

“I’ve managed to pass the preliminaries too. It’d be nice if the match-ups allow me to have a match against you. Of course, I don’t have confidence that I could win, but I want to know just how strong you are.â€￾

Then, he enlists the Saiyans' help because he feels that he needs it in order to defeat Babidi.

Later, he worries about Vegeta fighting Pui Pui all by himself, acting all carefree:

“You mustn’t underestimate your opponent! Babidi gathers only strong warriors from everywhere and makes them his allies!â€￾

Later when Vegeta easily wins, Kaioshin says:

“Th-that can’t be…Th-they’re this [strong]…â€￾

If he's worried about (presumably) the Super Saiyans taking damage from Babidi's fighters, and if he believes himself to be weaker than the Super Saiyans, then it stands to reason that he'd be weaker than the Base Saiyans, since Base Vegeta surpassed all of those expectations.

 

[Six Trails]

Base Saiyans > Kaioshin isn't objective, though. If you are not aware, objective evidence is a direct statement (like Piccolo directly saying Kaioshin is stronger than himself) or feat, not a subjective interpretation.

I used to agree with it, but really there's other ways to look at the whole situation. Heck, even Piccolo > Base is subjective, though I actually agree with that.

 

[SSJ2]

Base Saiyans > Kaioshin isn't objective, though. If you are not aware, objective evidence is a direct statement (like Piccolo directly saying Kaioshin is stronger than himself) or feat, not a subjective interpretation.

I used to agree with it, but really there's other ways to look at the whole situation. Heck, even Piccolo > Base is subjective, though I actually agree with that.

So you're basically saying to ignore context in favour of one statement?

 

[Six Trails]

No, I'm just not forcing one interpretation that relies on assumptions to discredit a direct objective statement.

 

[SSJ2]

No, I'm just not forcing one interpretation that relies on assumptions to discredit a direct objective statement.

That is foolish. It forces you to twist what you see in the rest of the story to make it work.

 

[Six Trails]

The story seems incoherent either way to me. Kaioshin wants to team up on Yakon when he knows that Goku can go Super Saiyan and even sees Goku handling Yakon in base just fine?

 

[Lightsworn]

[No message]