Nappa's power level and why...

[kriss-]

Speed doesn't correlate with strength, the two are separate attributes and this is shown time and time again. An angry and flustered mind would make it impossible for Nappa to trace Goku's movements since he's in a fit of rage. So I've already established two very good reasons that allow me to disregard your notion that Nappa had to have increased in battle power.

And again, you've provided nothing to suggest his Ki/strength increased.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Speed doesn't correlate with strength

Says who? Some random example much later in the series?

Guess what Vegeta says to Kiwi? Higher power=Higher speed. You can't prove that Nappa's strength isn't hand in hand with his speed.

the two are separate attributes and this is shown time and time again.

Not in the Saiyan saga, no.

An angry and flustered mind would make it impossible for Nappa to trace Goku's movements since he's in a fit of rage. So I've already established two very good reasons that allow me to disregard your notion that Nappa had to have increased in battle power.

He exchanged blows with Goku while keeping up in speed on an even level. It's shown and requires no assumption.

And again, you've provided nothing to suggest his Ki/strength increased.

Except the battle shows Nappa fighting on par with Goku in speed and power.

 

[kriss-]

Vegeta's statement is a reference to his own experience up until that point. Hence the terminology 'my', but it's not reflective of everybody and everything. Additionally, you cannot prove that Nappa's strength increased, meaning that your analogy that his Ki increased means it's an assumption that is completely unsupported.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta said Nappa can beat Goku if he's calm. Vegeta's the only one who knows how strong Nappa is. Krillin said Nappa's power is beyond imagination when talking to Goku about him.

So why is Nappa less than Goku's 5k level again?

 

[kriss-]

Nappa had a calm mind and was still being mocked by Goku. However, he was able to find an opening and nearly caught Goku off guard. This is reflective of Nappa's calm mind, not necessarily his battle power.

Nappa was intimidated by a battle power of 5,000 and nothing changes this. However, despite fighting against a battle power of 8,000, Goku refers to him as tough. Which implies that he's more durable then someone with a battle power of 5,000 would typically be. This simultaneously makes him appear stronger then he actually is which answers your question regarding Krillen and explains why Nappa was able to get pummeled by Goku and survive their beam struggle with no damage.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Krillin specifically mentioned Nappa's power, not his durability.

 

[kriss-]

Like Piccolo, Krillen wouldn't have a clear consensus of what Nappa is truly capable of because his battle power is so much higher then his own. Nappa never demonstrated what he could do until he fought to the best of his abilities; ergo, a calm mind. His toughness would also make him appear stronger then he actually is and it surprised Goku, so it would obviously surprise Krillen.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Krillin was barely over 10k and immediately recognized that Ginyu was worlds apart from the others. He also recognized that Freeza was way above Zarbon and the others despite being around 1.5k when sensing them. Piccolo said Nappa was stronger than he imagined and quickly knew they had no chance against him a straight-up fight. If Nappa never demonstrated the best of his abilities, he never displayed his full-power against Piccolo and the others.

The statement is entirely power based because it included Vegeta (who only blew up a Saibaman in his relaxed state) and Nappa in it, though Nappa has done the majority of the fighting.

 

[kriss-]

All Krillen would have to determine is 'Okay, this guy is WAYYY stronger then that one', but that's not the same as saying that he can accurately gauge their strength.

Nobody completely understood Vegeta's strength until he killed Nappa, even then, Goku was surprised when the Kaio-Ken wasn't effective.

Arguing that Krillen's statement is reflective of strength only is a reach and arguing that he completely understands what he's up against is an even larger reach, since the much stronger and better trained Goku, was impressed on two separate occasions by Vegeta battle power.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The very basis of the statement is power. That's what was mentioned, and that's the only thing he'd be able to judge Vegeta on considering he only showed some of his power. He grouped the two together for that reason.

Krillin can gauge Chi just fine, and he quickly warns Goku about their powers being beyond imagination. If Nappa is 4k and Goku is 5k, it's obvious who's Chi is the more powerful one. Krillin warned him because he wasn't at a level that clearly surpassed Nappa's until after he powered-up. That explains why Vegeta laughed at the idea of Goku challenging Nappa in the first place. Vegeta never intended to fight Goku until way after the fact.

 

[kriss-]

Krillen is blown away from Vegeta when he killed Nappa. If he actually gauged Vegeta's strength there wouldn't be any reason for him to be surprised.

Yet another contradiction within your perspective.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Because Vegeta powered-up to blow Nappa away. I already said he was judging Vegeta on his relaxed state because he had yet to fight. Piccolo only came to the conclusion that Vegeta was stronger than Nappa based on the fact that he told him what to do.

 

[kriss-]

I went through the entire Strength Checker and checked every Kuririn related statement from the Saiyan Arc, he never says anything like that. Maybe in the Viz translation, but Herms is a whole lot more accurate since Viz alters statements to suit the story.

Please provide the statement from Kuririn in the Strength Checker and I might consider it.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

It isn't in the Strength Checker. I can ask for it to be translated, though.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

From Herms:

Krillin: "That's crazy even for you, Goku!!! Their strength is far beyond imagination!!!"

So not much different than what was already posted.

 

[SSJ2]

Nappa is factually 7,585.

 

[kriss-]

From Herms:

Krillin: "That's crazy even for you, Goku!!! Their strength is far beyond imagination!!!"

So not much different than what was already posted.

Krillen is suggesting that he cannot imagine how strong they are, suggesting what I've thought all along, he doesn't fully comprehend their battle power.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Bruh......

"That's insane!! Even for you! Their power is beyond imagination!!"
"That's crazy even for you, Goku!!! Their strength is far beyond imagination!!!"

The statements are literally the same, dude. There's just more emphasis on their power in Herms' translation.

 

[kriss-]

That suggests that Kuririn cannot accurately judge their battle power. But Goku knows he's stronger then Nappa and decides to go in himself.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

No, it doesn't. It suggests that the Saiyans are above the level Goku is currently at. That's the whole point of "even for you" being in the statement.