Recent Chapter Discussion

[Captain Cadaver]

I really doubt Belmond is one shot material to the others. He trapped everyone in his Ki spheres and they almost died to him.

5 of the Hakaishin were also sure Beerus' attack would obliterate them if it hit them directly (Goku even having to ask Whis if they survived until the smoke cleared) until Sidra put his shield up, and he was nearly oneshotted by Belmod with a kick. It seems several of the Hakaishin have abilities that ignore conventional durability/attack power and there's quite the divide between the weaker Hakaishin (Sidra, Belmod, etc.) and the stronger ones (Beerus, Quitela, , etc.).

 

[Ultimate Cell]

I really doubt Belmond is one shot material to the others. He trapped everyone in his Ki spheres and they almost died to him.

5 of the Hakaishin were also sure Beerus' attack would obliterate them if it hit them directly (Goku even having to ask Whis if they survived until the smoke cleared) until Sidra put his shield up, and he was oneshotted by Belmod with a kick. It seems several of the Hakaishin have abilities that ignore conventional durability/attack power and there's quite the divide between the weaker Hakaishin (Sidra, Belmod, etc.) and the stronger ones (Beerus, Quitela, , etc.).

How would you compare jiren pre and post limits broken to the hakaishins?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Both would be above Sidra and Belmod, obviously. Anything beyond that though is a big question mark when Jiren's boost compared to the different Hakaishin is vague at best and it's apparent ToP UI Goku is a good step or two behind his current self. Recent scaling would suggest he definitely isn't touching the top tier ones like Beerus, Quitela and Rumoosh. Maybe he'd be around the level of Iwan, Arak or Geene, whose performances were very much mediocre.

 

[Ultimate Cell]

Both would be above Sidra and Belmod, obviously. Anything beyond that though is a big question mark when Jiren's boost compared to the different Hakaishin is vague at best and it's apparent ToP UI Goku is a good step or two behind his current self. Recent scaling would suggest he definitely isn't touching the top tier ones like Beerus, Quitela and Rumoosh. Maybe he'd be around the level of Iwan, Arak or Geene, whose performances were very much mediocre.

Idk if this is anime only but didnt whis imply belmond was stronger than beerus. Their was a statement that said along the lines of" their a mortal whose is stronger than their god of destruction, that god happens to be stronger than beerus."

 

[SIAD]

Both would be above Sidra and Belmod, obviously. Anything beyond that though is a big question mark when Jiren's boost compared to the different Hakaishin is vague at best and it's apparent ToP UI Goku is a good step or two behind his current self. Recent scaling would suggest he definitely isn't touching the top tier ones like Beerus, Quitela and Rumoosh. Maybe he'd be around the level of Iwan, Arak or Geene, whose performances were very much mediocre.

Goku was shocked to see how Beerus recently defeated Vegeta SSJBE. Could it be that Beerus (Hakai) >> Vegetto SSJB (Arc Zamasu / Manga)> = Beerus = UI Goku (Current) = Merus = UI Moro?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Idk if this is anime only but didnt whis imply belmond was stronger than beerus. Their was a statement that said along the lines of" their a mortal whose is stronger than their god of destruction, that god happens to be stronger than beerus."

In the anime, yes, but that's irrelevant to the manga where it's made apparent Quitela was that Hakaishin.

Goku was shocked to see how Beerus recently defeated Vegeta SSJBE. Could it be that Beerus (Hakai) >> Vegetto SSJB (Arc Zamasu / Manga)> = Beerus = UI Goku (Current) = Merus = UI Moro?

The chapter in general seems to have Goku and Vegeta act inconsistently when it comes to their view of Beerus' power, considering how shocked Vegeta was at Beerus destroying a nearby planet. Moreover, Goku was likely more surprised at how much effort Beerus was choosing to display in what was very much to him a sparring match.

 

[SIAD]

Idk if this is anime only but didnt whis imply belmond was stronger than beerus. Their was a statement that said along the lines of" their a mortal whose is stronger than their god of destruction, that god happens to be stronger than beerus."

In the anime, yes, but that's irrelevant to the manga where it's made apparent Quitela was that Hakaishin.

Goku was shocked to see how Beerus recently defeated Vegeta SSJBE. Could it be that Beerus (Hakai) >> Vegetto SSJB (Arc Zamasu / Manga)> = Beerus = UI Goku (Current) = Merus = UI Moro?

The chapter in general seems to have Goku and Vegeta act inconsistently when it comes to their view of Beerus' power, considering how shocked Vegeta was at Beerus destroying a nearby planet. Moreover, Goku was likely more surprised at how much effort Beerus was choosing to display in what was very much to him a sparring match.

And what do you think between UI Goku (Current) and Beerus? Will they be more or less on the same level?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Most likely. Considering Whis refers to Goku as being on the lowest level of an Angel's skills rather than a comparison to the Hakaishin, it's most likely his power and UI handling has surpassed Beerus, with Beerus' skills with Hakai being what's kept him from lagging behind (unless later events contradict this).

 

[Future Warrior]

Most likely. Considering Whis refers to Goku as being on the lowest level of an Angel's skills rather than a comparison to the Hakaishin, it's most likely his power and UI handling has surpassed Beerus, with Beerus' skills with Hakai being what's kept him from lagging behind (unless later events contradict this).

Goku thought Beerus wasn’t someone to mess with after seeing just a glimpse of his power.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's difficult to say if that's purely due to his power though when the whole point of the unique power of the Hakaishin was circling around the conversation both before and after the fight. We're also shown that the power these Gods possess through their Hakai is more than the conventional attack power/durability their Ki would suggest. For instance, Liquiir is able to counter Belmod's technique that Beerus couldn't despite he and Heles being outmatched by Mosco in strength, Sidra being able to block Beerus' attack with his shield, etc. and the general matter that Hakai can just insta-kill most enemies on an equal field as seen with Goku VS Zamasu (if not for the immortality). Vegeta's reaction shows this was through some technique rather than a general Ki blast, further driving this point in, so it's not as though UI Goku would be capable of avoiding a fatal wound if not approaching Beerus cautiously in an all out fight.

 

[Future Warrior]

Vegeta's reaction shows this was through some technique rather than a general Ki blast, further driving this point in, so it's not as though UI Goku would be capable of avoiding a fatal wound if not approaching Beerus cautiously in an all out fight.

Sure, but Hakai still contributes to Beerus' overall combat ability. That's like saying Vegeta is stronger than Goku because UI is just a technique.

I wouldn't be surprised if Beerus can use his Hakai energy into a Toppo-esque GoD form that would mop the floor with anybody we've seen besides the Angels.

 

[SIAD]

I have no problem with the Hakai being an amp.

Perfectly Beerus can continue to win a match against opponents of his level or relatively higher as Broly.

 

[Pyro]

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1694199&sid=9e1e3a1641b4124fdbf20c84b29d9a1a#p1694199

Y'all see this shit from the draft page of chapter 70? Heavily hinting, if not outright saying, current Vegeta > LSSJ Broly.

If so, my boy Vegeta would whoop Jiren's ToP candy ass.

 

[Papasmurf]

So Beerus being weaker than Broly really is a pile of dog shit, as I suspected. Shit, I don't even know if Gogeta is above Beerus at this point

 

[Future Warrior]

Beerus would rape Broli but I highly doubt Vegeta is anywhere near him either.

 

[Papasmurf]

Beerus would rape Broli but I highly doubt Vegeta is anywhere near him either.

Whis witnessed LSSJ Broly vs. SSJB Gogeta. Why would he exclude Broly from the "I've never seen anyone stronger than you two" statement?

 

[Future Warrior]

He’s just an afterthought. He says this yet Beerus is literally right there.

It’s mostly about Goku and Vegeta’s rivalry and it’s clear Broli is a non factor in this since he’s not that interested in becoming stronger.

 

[Papasmurf]

I can see why Beerus would be exempt from it since he's a deity and still kind of a goalpost for the two of them to surpass. I don't see why a mortal like Broly with no such special status, whom the two of them fought before would be excluded. You might as well exclude Freeza or #17 too since they're not interested in their rivalry either. And it's not like Broly is from a parallel universe like Jiren either.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1694199&sid=9e1e3a1641b4124fdbf20c84b29d9a1a#p1694199

Y'all see this shit from the draft page of chapter 70? Heavily hinting, if not outright saying, current Vegeta > LSSJ Broly.

If so, my boy Vegeta would whoop Jiren's ToP candy ass.

Wasn't that obvious the moment Moro arc ended?

 

[Pocket-Gog~]