Recent Chapter Discussion

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Goku also said that Trunks should be able to handle future Zamasu alone which implies that the base/god form doesn't exist in the manga.

That would also seem to disprove such. If Base Goku (Black saga) >>> Base Goku (RoF) > SSG Goku (BoG), and he still decided to go Super Saiyan/Red/Blue against Zamasu, and Trunks is stated to be stronger than Zamasu, then the gaps in the BoG saga are seriously nerfed/were never big to begin with, Trunks got a gigantic power boost training with Vegeta for a couple days, or there is no God power absorption. Take your ludicrous pick.

What I was saying was it seems that FnF power chain doesn't exist in the manga but the God form were nerfed. Maybe it has something to do on reaching their limit where their SSjin forms are able to catch the form?

 

[ahill1]

The base form still seems to be pretty powerful in the manga (maybe not as powerful as SSJGod in BoG, but still). The SSJBlue is implied to not be much more than 10x above the base form, and in the RoF manga version, Goku can fight final form Freeza, a foe who was apparently way stronger than Gohan and Piccolo just in his 1st form.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Agreed, I didn't see anything that suggested the Base Saiyans were all that strong. Absorbing God power in base, what the hell.

Whilst not as strong as SSG, Goku and Vegeta's base forms still have to be semi-relevant to their God Ki based on feats. Anticipating Hit's moves was enough for Goku to perform better in Base/SSJ than Vegeta was able to do with 10% of his SSB power. There's also SS2 Trunks being able to catch SSR Black off-guard, despite being at best equal to SS3 Goku, as well as Black's power quickly going from SS2 Vegeta's equal to catching up to a SSB Vegeta that, whilst somewhat drained, still didn't seem as drained as he was against Hit.

 

[Keedounan]

Agreed, I didn't see anything that suggested the Base Saiyans were all that strong. Absorbing God power in base, what the hell.

Whilst not as strong as SSG, Goku and Vegeta's base forms still have to be semi-relevant to their God Ki based on feats. Anticipating Hit's moves was enough for Goku to perform better in Base/SSJ than Vegeta was able to do with 10% of his SSB power. There's also SS2 Trunks being able to catch SSR Black off-guard, despite being at best equal to SS3 Goku, as well as Black's power quickly going from SS2 Vegeta's equal to catching up to a SSB Vegeta that, whilst somewhat drained, still didn't seem as drained as he was against Hit.

Good points, although some of us like to dismiss these scenes as inconsistent.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I would rather avoid FnF in order to stay consistent.

 

[Void]

Agreed, I didn't see anything that suggested the Base Saiyans were all that strong. Absorbing God power in base, what the hell.

Anticipating Hit's moves was enough for Goku to perform better in Base/SSJ than Vegeta was able to do with 10% of his SSB power.

Not sure this one is a good example, Goku had an idea of what Hit was doing while Vegeta was clueless. Hit was also expecting Goku to turn Blue, and Beerus only says that Red Goku surpassed Blue Vegeta at less than 10%. I don't think it's unfair to say Hit was using less effort aginst Base Goku.

Also, I don't think Trunks catching Rose Black off guard is all that bad considering what Piccolo did to 50% Freeza and the manga seems to imply smaller multipliers.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I remember Zamasu knocking the shit out of Vegeta when he wasn't paying attention, too.

 

[Papasmurf]

Beerus says expicitly that Hit's raw power was lower than SSJ Goku's so I don't buy that effort argument that much personally. Although I do think the SSJB form should be more than 10x SSJ.

Agreed on the "off guard attacks don't mean much" thing though. I don't think Trunks not being ohko'd against SSJR Black means much considering 50% Freeza beat up a weakened base Goku for a while without breaking every bone in his body.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Oh, shit. I missed that part about Hit. Or forgot.

Damn, he seems weak. Before the power-up, anyway.

 

[Future Warrior]

So was RoF retconned?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Yes, the current power chain doesn't even follow what RoF presented to us.

 

[Void]

Yeah, the RoF manga had First Form Freeza > SS Gohan and Base Goku >~ Final Form Freeza. It's hard to have that mesh with how Future Trunks vs. Dabra went and then Trunks matching SS3 Goku who had 3 years in the RoSaT.

Unless Gohan is just beyond pitiful (like Namek SS Goku tier) and RoF Final Form Freeza is weaker than Dabra.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The only thing mentioned from RoF was Golden Freeza and SSB, and that's what all matters IMO.

 

[Future Warrior]

So we are just gonna forget that RoF ever existed? Even though it was stated to happen in the manga?

 

[phill1123]

You can't just disregard it, that's not logical. Toyotaro just retconned it.

 

[SIAD]

What? Vegeta SSJG (Post Rosat) > Goku Black SSJR >>>> Goku Black SSJ (Post Zenkai) > Vegeta SSJB (Pre Rosat)?

 

[Future Warrior]

What? Vegeta SSJG (Post Rosat) > Goku Black SSJR >>>> Goku Black SSJ (Post Zenkai) > Vegeta SSJB (Pre Rosat)?

Goku states Vegeta changes to Super Saiyan Blue for a split second each time he attacks/defends against Goku Black. Goku Black even states that SSG Vegeta shouldn't be a match for him before knowing his strategy.

 

[Void]

Funny, since Blue isn't implied to be a huge boost over Red.

 

[p123]

Everything is like a 5% boost in this shit. It's so dumb.

 

[Future Warrior]

I could see a 2x boost giving Vegeta a decent advantage against Black.