Recent Chapter Discussion

[xenos5]

Why the fuck is SSB Goku able to blow a hole through Merged Zamasu -_- . Zamasu even responded that he didn't know if he still had his immortality or not and was glad to see it confirmed which would mean he was on guard since he didn't know if he'd be able to regenerate if dealt a fatal blow.

At least in the anime SSB Goku had to use a kamehameha that ruined his remaining arm just to begin to make Merged Zamasu unstable (not really damaging him).

Base Goku and Vegeta deflecting attacks from Merged Zamasu is dumb as well and it is especially dumb for them to still be alive next chapter (they somehow will be) after taking an attack that was intended for SSB Vegito.

Base Vegito blowing up half of Merged Zamasu also doesn't make sense since in the manga the saiyans didn't absorb SSG into base form so base Vegito should be at the level he was when he first appeared against Buuhan (and in the manga he immediately went SSJ acknowledging his base form wouldn't be enough for Buuhan).

I also dislike how Merged Zamasu's moveset in the manga is really uninspired. Spamming telekinesis over and over using generic katchin blocks, and using a ki flurry that pretty much seems to be Toyatoro lazily tracing Super Buu's human extinction attack.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

That KHH was just to confirmed that Merged Zamasu is still immortal unlike the anime. Goku caught him off guard so it's nothing new here.

Base Vegito is stronger than SSjinG/B Vegeta and Goku since the fusion is greater than the individuals.

 

[SIAD]

In fact, Vegetto Base (Debilitated)> / >> Vegeta SSJB.

  The SSJ Multiplier for Vegetto is nerfed. I have Vegetto SSJB> = 71x Vegeta SSJB.

 

[Future Warrior]

In fact, Vegetto Base (Debilitated)> / >> Vegeta SSJB.

  The SSJ Multiplier for Vegetto is nerfed. I have Vegetto SSJB> = 71x Vegeta SSJB.

How much stronger do you have Beerus compared to SSB Goku/Vegeta?

 

[SIAD]

Between 70 and 100x stronger than Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat).

 

[xenos5]

That KHH was just to confirmed that Merged Zamasu is still immortal unlike the anime. Goku caught him off guard so it's nothing new here.

Base Vegito is stronger than SSjinG/B Vegeta and Goku since the fusion is greater than the individuals.

Nope. Being greater than the base forms of Goku and Vegito would not make base Vegito more powerful than SSG Goku or Vegeta since SSG is far above any previous form (it's a jump from star level to universe level). Base Goku and Vegito didn't absorb SSG into their base forms (so they don't have god ki in base) neither would Vegito have that power in base.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

That KHH was just to confirmed that Merged Zamasu is still immortal unlike the anime. Goku caught him off guard so it's nothing new here.

Base Vegito is stronger than SSjinG/B Vegeta and Goku since the fusion is greater than the individuals.

Nope. Being greater than the base forms of Goku and Vegito would not make base Vegito more powerful than SSG Goku or Vegeta since SSG is far above any previous form (it's a jump from star level to universe level). Base Goku and Vegito didn't absorb SSG into their base forms (so they don't have god ki in base) neither would Vegito have that power in base.

Again...

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Therefore, Base Vegito is greater than SSjinG/B Vegeta and Goku.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Why the fuck is SSB Goku able to blow a hole through Merged Zamasu -_- . Zamasu even responded that he didn't know if he still had his immortality or not and was glad to see it confirmed which would mean he was on guard since he didn't know if he'd be able to regenerate if dealt a fatal blow.

It was pretty clear Zamasu allowed him, as he stated immediately afterwards how he was glad to see his immortality remained intact. He was merely testing his body.

Base Vegito blowing up half of Merged Zamasu also doesn't make sense since in the manga the saiyans didn't absorb SSG into base form so base Vegito should be at the level he was when he first appeared against Buuhan (and in the manga he immediately went SSJ acknowledging his base form wouldn't be enough for Buuhan).

Firstly, it's pretty clear the Saiyans did absorb God Ki at some point, or at least developed such through Whis' training, given how the gap between their lower forms and God forms isn't suggested to be light years apart (Goku VS Hit, Vegeta VS Black, etc.). Secondly, Base Vegetto doesn't need to be above their SSG forms looking at the context. Both Goku and Vegeta were weakened to the point that they couldn't transform and Zamasu was off guard in terms of preparing for Vegetto's attack, something that's very important in Super. With that context in mind, there'd be nothing wrong with placing Base Vegetto below their SSG forms.

 

[xenos5]

That KHH was just to confirmed that Merged Zamasu is still immortal unlike the anime. Goku caught him off guard so it's nothing new here.

Base Vegito is stronger than SSjinG/B Vegeta and Goku since the fusion is greater than the individuals.

Nope. Being greater than the base forms of Goku and Vegito would not make base Vegito more powerful than SSG Goku or Vegeta since SSG is far above any previous form (it's a jump from star level to universe level). Base Goku and Vegito didn't absorb SSG into their base forms (so they don't have god ki in base) neither would Vegito have that power in base.

Again...

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Therefore, Base Vegito is greater than SSjinG/B Vegeta and Goku.

Nope. That's not referring to base Vegito. Vegito could POTENTIALLY reach power neither participant in the fusion could reach on their own by going to the highest form both have.

by your logic in the original Dragonball manga there wouldn't have been any reason for Base Vegito to transform into SSJ as quickly as he did since he'd already be more powerful than Goku and Vegeta's maximum forms powers combined (SSJ3 + SSJ3) already but that was clearly not the case and Vegito transformed immediately because he knew base would not be enough against Buuhan.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Nope. Being greater than the base forms of Goku and Vegito would not make base Vegito more powerful than SSG Goku or Vegeta since SSG is far above any previous form (it's a jump from star level to universe level). Base Goku and Vegito didn't absorb SSG into their base forms (so they don't have god ki in base) neither would Vegito have that power in base.

Again...

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Therefore, Base Vegito is greater than SSjinG/B Vegeta and Goku.

Nope. That's not referring to base Vegito. Vegito could POTENTIALLY reach power neither participant in the fusion could reach on their own by going to the highest form both have.

by your logic in the original Dragonball manga there wouldn't have been any reason for Base Vegito to transform into SSJ as quickly as he did since he'd already be more powerful than Goku and Vegeta's maximum forms powers combined (SSJ3 + SSJ3) already but that was clearly not the case and Vegito transformed immediately because he knew base would not be enough against Buuhan.

You might be right about Vegito's maximum could potentially greater than the idividuals but the fact that Base Gotenks was implied to be stronger than the SSjin kids pretty much confirmed my argument.

Base Vegito was stronger than SSjin3 Goku and SSjin2 Vegeta and the reason why he turned into SSjin against Boohan was because his base form wasn't enough. I don't see any problem of that since there's a huge gap of power between Goku and Boohan where even with Base Vegito can't win.

 

[SIAD]

I personally do not have any problems with Vegetto Base >> Vegeta SSJB, considering that since Goku and Vegeta when they traveled to the Future the first time, it was clear that the gaps of their SSJB on their SSJ decreased considerably as in Manga and in the anime.

  Maybe Vegeta and Goku SSJB were hurt against Merged Zamasu, but Vegetto Base was also hurt.

  Anyway I have the SSJs multiplier for Vegetto nerfed.

 

[Void]

The multipliers are definitely much smaller in the manga given what we see go on between Black and Vegeta. The multipliers should still be the same for the Saiyans, though. Excluding Black of course.

 

[SIAD]

The multipliers are definitely much smaller in the manga given what we see go on between Black and Vegeta. The multipliers should still be the same for the Saiyans, though. Excluding Black of course.

The SSJ multiplier for the Saiyans in the Anime also decreased considerably, each time Goku SSJ faces someone stronger than him, he passes directly to the SSJB.

  Personally I think the SSJ is still 50x Base, but the difference between SSJBs over SSJs has dropped considerably. In short, Goku and Vegeta's Base and SSJ increased considerably.

 

[Void]

Base to Super Saiyan seems a lot smaller than 50x. It certainly is for Black.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The multipliers are definitely much smaller in the manga given what we see go on between Black and Vegeta. The multipliers should still be the same for the Saiyans, though. Excluding Black of course.

The SSJ multiplier for the Saiyans in the Anime also decreased considerably, each time Goku SSJ faces someone stronger than him, he passes directly to the SSJB.

  Personally I think the SSJ is still 50x Base, but the difference between SSJBs over SSJs has dropped considerably. In short, Goku and Vegeta's Base and SSJ increased considerably.

But GOAT Zamasu stated that Goku's power increased by tens times when he transformed into SSjin2 in the anime. The anime probably follows the SEG multipliers IMO.

 

[SIAD]

It may be that the SSJ multiplier is not 50x. It strikes me that Goku in front of almost any opponent, is transformed into SSJ, for that reason I think the SSJ multiplier on Base, is still very large. Instead the transformations of SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJG, SSJB have a small amplifier, not as before the SSJG was >>>>> SSJ3.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Toriyama said that SSjin2/3 are just a powered version of SSjin and Goku would have to train from SSjin in order to get stronger. That was after BoG movie though.

 

[SIAD]

However, Goku used his SSJ2 / SSJ3 / SSJG forms against Future Trunks, where the SSJG looked gigantically superior to SSJ3. Later, the SSJB does not appear to be gigantically superior to the SSJ.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

However, Goku used his SSJ2 / SSJ3 / SSJG forms against Future Trunks, where the SSJG looked gigantically superior to SSJ3. Later, the SSJB does not appear to be gigantically superior to the SSJ.

SsjinB Goku can pull a similar feat like he did to Trunks as SsjinG.

 

[SIAD]

I doubt it, at least the fight between Vegeta vs Goku Black, Vegeta SSJG managed to dodge some blows of Goku Black SSJR, this was not insignificant against Vegeta SSJB. Goku SSJG easily knocked out Future Trunks SSJ2 "improved".