Ssj namek vegeta vs freeza (50%)

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p123

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You are not dumb in life, just uneducated on the topic. When people try to educate you, are you always this ungrateful? I am your boss. You should follow my lead to cease further embarrassment. I'll cool nothing.
 

Ultimate Cell

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p123 said:
You are not dumb in life, just uneducated on the topic. When people try to educate you, are you always this ungrateful? I am your boss. You should follow my lead to cease further embarrassment. I'll cool nothing.
Oh Please Im embarrassed for you. You have a toxic attitude to any anyone who disagree with you. Oh and you're not the boss of anyone. Keep acting like you have power on here when you dont have any at all. You dont control anyone and you never will.
 

p123

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Haha ok kid. Well guess what, I'm just a fucked up human being who gets off on being a dick. Too fucking bad. You going to cry to your fucking mommy?
 

Ultimate Cell

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p123 said:
Haha ok kid. Well guess what, I'm just a fucked up human being who gets off on being a dick. Too fucking bad. You going to cry to your fucking mommy?

No Im just gonna ignore you. You're just an asshole in the sea of trolls and assholes that the Internet ignores.If you really think Im gonna cry over some internet troll calling me an idiot and a dumbass, then you're more pathetic than I am and I almost feel sorry for you.
 

freezamite

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Evil Vegeta said:
He was already using Kaio-Ken x10 in your opinion. It's not a fact.
No, he was already using the Kaio-Ken because anything that can be said against him using the KK since the beginning is:
1. An opinion that can be easily counter-argued.
2. Something that also applies against the KK mid activation.

On the other hand Goku activating the KKx10 at the middle of the fight contradicts nearly every manga internal rule and also the narrative style of Toriyama.

Evil Vegeta said:
Vegeta said Goku overcame his limits and was close to being a Super Saiyan.
Vegeta knew absolutely nothing about what being a SSJ was (just some minutes before he thought HE had become a SSJ). He only sensed Goku's huge power which could be huge per se or because he had the KKx10 activated. This doesn't prove that Goku wasn't using the KKx10 at that point.


Evil Vegeta said:
Krillin said Goku's Chi was completely different than it was from before.
Which in any case would point towards him using the KKx10, or at least, much more than Goku not using it.

Evil Vegeta said:
The entire context is on Goku's normal power
Context that changes completely when Kaito reveals to us that Goku was already using the KKx10. I agree in that if Kaito hadn't said what he said you would have a point here.

By the way, I don't think Freezer increased his power at all until he used 50% of it against Goku. Him increasing his speed is something that can be perfectly done without a power up, heck, any living being can increase his speed without increasing his ki (try it yourself at home p123. First walk from your bedroom to the street and then repeat the same but running. You'll notice how the second time you'll reach the street faster than the first one, and believe me, you can't increase your ki in real life :wink: ).
 

Keedounan

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Vegeta wins after a tough fight thanks to skill and slight power advantage imo.
 

Super Neko Majin Z

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Look, p123, we get it, you're experienced. You're also that guy who shakes everyone's hand way too hard trying to hide his crippling insecurity.
 

KyuubiAhri

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p123 said:
If you say so. The guy still hasn't figured out some of the basic stuff. Things that were figured out 5-10 years ago, he still doesn't get. It's like he's stuck in a time warp or something. He's your typical 2008 DBZ Poster lol.

Maybe if you give him private lessons he will get better.He becomes good debator and you get some money
 

p123

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If only life was like that Super Neko. Some people are just dicks and get off abusing people. I fall into this category. Haha.

Kyuubi- He couldn't afford me. I make a lot of money. My time is valuable.
 

KyuubiAhri

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UltimateGohkan said:
I think people take the gaps too literal for the freiza saga. Their nothing wrong with havin Goku a 3 million and Vegeta in the 2.5 through 2 million range when a 20% difference in power can change the outcome of a battle. Gokus power level of 16,000 was useless against vegeta power level of 18,000 during the saiyan saga despite being only a 10% gap.Vegeta Power Level increased to 24,000 and easily toys with Cui who has 18,000 pl. Only 25% gap but it looks like the gap is higher. Its shown when Vegeta effortlessly kills dodoria and beats Zarbon with PL in the 20,000-23,000 range. Monster Zarbon PL is barely in the 27,000- 29,000 range but thrashes Vegeta. So its not insane to have Goku a 3 million or Vegeta at 2.4 million when in DragonBall a 25% advantage in power can mean a complete stomp in battle.

you sound like this :


ss gotenks not stronger then ss3 goku thats impossible for example hear me out, fat buu beat normal state gotenks far too easy he just lift him up and head butted real soft and sent him flying and he couldnt even move his hands after that lol, so aint no way ss gotenks that much of a mega power difference i know it is a huge power difference but not that dam much thats too much of a gain to actually beat him after not being able to budge ur fingers by getting beat extremely easy to trashing the opponent, whereas goku ss3 was toying with fat buu holding him by his horn like thingy and punching him repeatedly, u could tell he was toying with how he was hitting him look like he was love tapping him hitting him all soft like oh shoot dont wanna kill u now let me ease up on the punches rotf whos to know ss3 gotenks wont do the same all of that like its actually a even match but playing with him the whole time, and whos to say ss3 goku wont beat normal super buu like ss3 gotenks did the reason he said him and vegeta couldnt beat super buu was because they didnt get all the pods out of him even though he got a lot weaker so that would make him at least buu ss3 gotenks absorbed level that even ultimate gohan couldnt beat also so thats me explaining why its not actual proof ss3 gotenks or even ultimate gohan stronger then ss3 goku what they do that he couldnt they only beat plain super buu which im sure ss3 goku could beat guaranteed how do yall know he cant he never even fought him so theres no proof normal super buu can beat goku or vice versa and how do we know ss3 gotenks and ultimate gohan can beat kid buu, they never even fought him so they coulda been having problems with him just like goku and vegeta did the exact same way so its not proven they could beat kid buu or vice versa but i believe for sure kid buu could beat ss3 gotenks and ultimate gohan heres why because goku needed the whole and i mean the whole world to lend him power for the spirit bomb to beat him even people from the other world, like fighters like pikkon and much others, pikkon his self is beyond a super saiyan its been proven as a matter fact he beyond super saiyan2 that also been proven how he killed frieza and his dad and cell very quick in a blink of the eye so thats forsure and they needed him, and bunch of other fighters energy in other world we saw like at least 30 people raise their hands in other world including pikkon, even theirs wasnt enough he needes everybodys else in the world too, thats the only way they was able to beat him, i guarantee it wont take all of that for ultimate gohan and ss3 gotenks but he needed every last drop of energy to kill him one person alone pikkon beyond super saiyan2 is crazy power alone then other fighters another beyond super saiyan that fought pikkon thats been proven he was able to give pikkon a match before he lost, the hercules looking guy so thats lot of power there too so them and everyone together in other world makes at least past super saiyan3 enough power to overcome a super saiyan3 in other world alone, so think about it even if ss3 gotenks and ultimate gohan is stronger then ss3 goku they cant be that much beyond super saiyan3 yall know too no matter what u believe, they cant be that much stronger, that would make them super saiyan4 level or close, which is not true cause 10× kamehameha is 10 times stronger , think about it 10 times is a hella huge lot stronger 10times, think about it if i could bench press 300 pounds that means somebody twice as strong can bench press 600 pounds thats a whole lot stronger just by being 2× as strong and in order to be able to lift 600 pounds u gotta be a body builder forsure, cause nobody normal can lift 600 pounds and thats only twice as strong and already its too much to lift, so to finally add it all up each time u add it by 300 since thats my strength, and it gets doubled each time, so if i could bench press 300 pounds somebody 10× stronger then me can bench press are u ready for it... 3,000 pounds 3,000 fucking pounds, which nobody in the entire world can lift not even body builders, dam thats beyond reachable alone in the human eye in dragon ball z eye thats even stronger then i claimed, cause they much crazily stronger then anybody or anything in the world in the real world cause even in the very weak dbz days frieza himself was able to lift a giant bolder with his strength by his telekinesis but it still takes strength to lift it even by doing that and he lifted it up to the sky where 30 body builders cant lift and he wasnt even stuggling at all he busy talking while he lifting it for a while then he hearled it at goku case closed no way in hell ss3 gotenks and ultimate gohan that much stronger, it takes all that power to kill kid buu which makes him able to defeat ss3 gotenks and ultimate gohan because it even took a little bit to kill him, he still was holding it off, all the power from the world and other world, think about it every fighter in other world and even the real world and from the trees which goku even said his self one tree is unbelievably strong by itself so it's like 100 trees and the rivers and ocean and seas, and from plants, everything in the world that has life to it goku explained all of that will annihilate gotenks and gohan and kid buu was able to hold it off a while too, goku was able to take that crazily strong mofo on so my point is goku wins against gotenks, plus to be honest i cant even see gotenks having goku down on the ground it doesnt even look right it look stupid even visioning it right now which i tried i dont even see it, even if goku cant beat him, gokull use the spirit bomb and itll be lights out for gotenks and we know it, its over gotenks is DEAD.




Please stop
 

freezamite

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Evil Vegeta said:
It is a good theory.

Goku being way above 3 million makes more sense when taking everything into consideration. Vegeta's comments on Goku and the way Goku deflects those beams put him far above Vegeta. I'd like to think there was a rather significant difference between Goku/Freeza and Vegeta right there.
Goku above 3 million contradicts nearly any feat given about him post-freezer saga, but well, any time a feat contradicts what you say it's the manga's fault and not yours so...
 

Evil Vegeta

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It doesn't contradict a thing. Stop acting as if your interpretation is the only correct one. You're one of the only people who believe Goku never surpassed 1st Form Freeza and somehow believe your opinion supersedes everyone else's.
 

phill1123

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No one knows the manga better than I do, Base Goku is definitely > Vegeta at Final Form Freeza. That's just plain logic.
 

freezamite

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Evil Vegeta said:
It doesn't contradict a thing. Stop acting as if your interpretation is the only correct one. You're one of the only people who believe Goku never surpassed 1st Form Freeza and somehow believe your opinion supersedes everyone else's.
It contradicts the 40 tons feat and it contradicts the energy Cell needed to go from < SSJ Vegeta to > Kami Piccolo, which are not opinions but stated feats (like the use of the KKx10 against Freezer, only with the anime it can be argued Goku wasn't using it since the begining). Regarding the "we are more than you so you're wrong and we're right", I don't buy it. I mean, I know most of the fans discovered the series through the anime but I'm sure there are other people that read the manga first and stick to the rules described there as well, and in terms of being canon manga >>> anime since forever.

No one knows the manga better than I do, Base Goku is definitely > Vegeta at Final Form Freeza. That's just plain logic.
Until Kaito says Goku had been using the KKx10 which changes the whole picture (just how Fat Bu could be considered stronger or close to SSJ3 Goku until much later in the saga Goku says he lied about Fat Bu's strength and that he could've killed him as a SSJ3).
 

Void

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This "You guys use the anime too much" is crap. You need to understand most of us here own or have read Viz's translations. Everyone here is also quite familiar with Herms' translations as well. We come to different conclusions solely based off the manga.

Gingertown Cell > SS Vegeta also.
 

Evil Vegeta

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The 40 tons is an inconsistency. We don't know how Cell's absorption of the humans directly affects his power. Him simply adding 5 by consuming people entirely isn't a fact by any means.

The truth of the matter is that Goku was under his own normal power when he was said to be above Vegeta. There's no sign of any Kaio-Ken anywhere. Kaio's later statement was made well after Freeza started using 50% of his power. "Goku's already using the Kaio-Ken x10" means exactly what it says: he's currently using it. That says nothing about him using it the entire time, which is really your own opinion with no visual evidence. What you're basically saying is everyone who believes Goku's power is in the millions (including actual writers of the Daizenshuu) are all wrong and you're the only one who can interpret the story correctly.

And like I said countless times, Piccolo and Freeza both said Goku was holding-back a lot of power, to which Goku agrees with. Kaio eventually tells us he's using the Kaio-Ken x10. That means the Kaio-Ken x10 was the power Goku was hiding, thus ending the idea of Kaio-Ken x10 being active the entire time altogether unless you try really hard to twist the statements.
 

p123

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Mods need to grow some balls and ban this stupid fuck. Who has time to listen to this kid's nonsense? It's a huge distraction and if the mods had any sense, they'd give him a light ban and tell him to knock it off on the obvious topic. The kid is clearly trolling and you all are falling for it.
 

Evil Vegeta

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I honestly keep responding because I'm bored and keep thinking it might make a difference. No idea why.

But I'm going to put together a nice visual post w/quotes to end the idea of Goku using the Invisible Kaio-Ken altogether. It'll take a little time, but I got this.
 
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