Paladin said:
Gingertown Cell > SS Vegeta also.
SSJ Vegeta was at 18 levels of power while GG Town Cell wasn't as strong as the androids. I think that if he had been stronger than Vegeta, he would've attacked when he had the opportunity instead of hiding like he did (he had the surprise factor in his favour there).
Evil Vegeta said:
The 40 tons is an inconsistency. We don't know how Cell's absorption of the humans directly affects his power. Him simply adding 5 by consuming people entirely isn't a fact by any means.
You can't simply write something to be an inconsistency only because it contradicts what you would like to happen. The 40 tons feat is consistent with any gravity feat given in the series (and yes, the gravity feats were inconsistent with the first part of DB, but that's a different matter).
Regarding Cell's absorptions, we know exactly how they work.
Not only he cleary explains that he sucks the energy from other life beings and adds it to himself, but we also have this feat as a proof of that:
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-170-index-2-page-1.html
See? No magic multipliers, otherwise Piccolo's statement would make 0 sense.
Evil Vegeta said:
The truth of the matter is that Goku was under his own normal power when he was said to be above Vegeta. There's no sign of any Kaio-Ken anywhere.
The thing is, there's no sign of the KK ever (well, at least until Goku activates the KKx20), that's why the KKx10 was used since the beginning. Even when Kaito is saying Goku is using the KKx10, no KK aura is ever drawn on Goku.
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-118-index-2-page-14.html
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-119-index-2-page-1.html
Evil Vegeta said:
Kaio's later statement was made well after Freeza started using 50% of his power. "Goku's already using the Kaio-Ken x10" means exactly what it says: he's currently using it. That says nothing about him using it the entire time, which is really your own opinion with no visual evidence.
He says Goku is already using the KKx10, which has to apply to the whole fight for the following reasons:
1. We don't see any KKx10 activation. Never in the series a character has used a technique without stating it or at least it being clearly apparent, but here Goku starts to use the KKx10 at some point without no one noticing it or saying anything about it. So to start it goes against the author's narrative style.
2. It's activation in the middle of the fight contradicts the internal rules of the manga. Where does Goku activate the KKx10 and how can Freezer anticipate it for it to have no effects? Furthermore, if you're basing your stance of no KK on the fact that an aura is not drawn, then for pure coherency that means that in any instance where Goku doesn't have a KK aura he isn't using the KKx10, which breaks nearly any other internal rule of the manga (so he resists 50% Freezer's hits, that are strong enough to defeat KKx10 Goku, without the KKx10?) and contradicts Kaito when he says Goku is using the KK at a moment Goku is clearly drawn without an aura.
So or Toriyama retconned Goku's strength at the middle of the fight, or he simply wanted to hide the fact that Goku was already using the KKx10 to hype him, or he wanted to surprise the reader. The thing is, once Kaito says Goku is using the KKx10 and we've seen no KKx10 activation nor any KK aura on Goku, that has to apply to the whole fight.
Evil Vegeta said:
What you're basically saying is everyone who believes Goku's power is in the millions (including actual writers of the Daizenshuu) are all wrong and you're the only one who can interpret the story correctly.
You mean the same writters that put Raditz at 1500 and Nappa at 4000? Yeah, the Daizenshuu is not very good when it comes to understand the manga. In fact, I think it clearly was more influenced by the anime than by the manga.
Evil Vegeta said:
And like I said countless times, Piccolo and Freeza both said Goku was holding-back a lot of power, to which Goku agrees with. Kaio eventually tells us he's using the Kaio-Ken x10. That means the Kaio-Ken x10 was the power Goku was hiding, thus ending the idea of Kaio-Ken x10 being active the entire time altogether unless you try really hard to twist the statements.
None of them says nothing about "a lot" of power. Goku wasn't fighting all out, which can be even done without restraining your power (like Raditz does against Goku and Piccolo), and as I said, the KKx10 activation in the middle of the fight contradicts nearly any internal rule of the manga. It's your interpretation of a comment (Goku not fighting all out = he has the KKx10 in reserve) against how any single fight in DB is portrayed, or even this very same fight at a different point (Freezer 50% to 70% takes SSJ Goku by surprise, like Goku's KKx2 activation against Vegeta or his KKx20 activation against Freezer as well, but somehow Freezer can anticipate a sudden KKx10 invisible and untold activation that also happens to have no influence on the fight).
