The Captain's assortment of random numbers

[Void]

Why do you have the SS multiplier at 10x in the beginning of the Seru arc and then 50x after RoSaT?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Already explained that in the FAQ section at the end. Set multipliers don't really work with what the plot suggests. Gero + Humans + Gohan + Suppressed Piccolo > SSJ Vegeta makes it almost impossible to keep the 50x multiplier there if you take it seriously, whilst the implication of the Base Saiyans not being leagues above #18 from the Mighty Mask fight would suggest the 10x multiplier to be far too small.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

One could argue the suit restrained Goten and Trunks that much though. I mean even as SSJs they still admited to be outclassed hand to hand.

Going with the 10x in the Boo Arc would be neat to fit the Base Saiyans > Piccolo implications.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

One could argue the suit restrained Goten and Trunks that much though. I mean even as SSJs they still admited to be outclassed hand to hand.

That still seems like a very shaky stance though, seeing as how it makes little sense for a suit to plot nerf them by that much, especially when they were already fighting on par with her in base. My take on Trunks' statement is that he may be severely overestimating #18's full capabilities based on hype of her once being stronger than his dad, who's practically unrivalled in Trunks' eyes.

Going with the 10x in the Boo Arc would be neat to fit the Base Saiyans > Piccolo implications.

I'd consider Piccolo's feats against the Cell Jr. and Trunks' surprise at Goku saying Piccolo stood no chance against Cell a more solid placement of his power than most of the Base Saiyans > Piccolo implications. For one, the belief of Dabura being able to sense Ki seems to be dubious, given he needed to use a Kili meter to read SSJ Goku's power. Even if assuming he could sense some form of power, it's arguable Piccolo could have been suppressing more Ki than the Saiyans due to being far more cautious about someone Shin considered a threat. As for the Shin question, Super seems to hint at the idea that Piccolo's reaction at the Budokai was indeed due to deducing Shin's status and not sensing his power, given he was unable to sense Beerus.

Inb4 this becomes a Base Saiyans VS Big Green thread masquerading as a battle power thread.

 

[Six Trails]

[mention]GreatSaiyaman123[/mention] is SS Trunks’s suppressed blast weaker than a full-power blast from Base Trunks?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That still seems like a very shaky stance though, seeing as how it makes little sense for a suit to plot nerf them by that much, especially when they were already fighting on par with her in base. My take on Trunks' statement is that he may be severely overestimating #18's full capabilities based on hype of her once being stronger than his dad, who's practically unrivalled in Trunks' eyes.

He actually knew a full power blast from him would kill her though. He and Goten were well aware that #18 wasn't that strong after fighting her.

I'd consider Piccolo's feats against the Cell Jr. and Trunks' surprise at Goku saying Piccolo stood no chance against Cell a more solid placement of his power than most of the Base Saiyans > Piccolo implications. For one, the belief of Dabura being able to sense Ki seems to be dubious, given he needed to use a Kili meter to read SSJ Goku's power. Even if assuming he could sense some form of power, it's arguable Piccolo could have been suppressing more Ki than the Saiyans due to being far more cautious about someone Shin considered a threat. As for the Shin question, Super seems to hint at the idea that Piccolo's reaction at the Budokai was indeed due to deducing Shin's status and not sensing his power, given he was unable to sense Beerus.

Inb4 this becomes a Base Saiyans VS Big Green thread masquerading as a battle power thread.

Piccolo being close to CG Vegeta and Trunks (What i strongly disagree) and being weaker than Base Saiyans aren't polar opposites though. Goku and co. could be > 50% Goku in base by the Boo Arc, it's not like there's stuff contradicting that.

Does Super actually implies Shin has God Ki too though? Could it be the case that only the Hakaishins have God Ki. I think Goku even uses Shunkan Ido to teleport to Kibitoshin in the begining of the series a couple times.

[mention]GreatSaiyaman123[/mention] is SS Trunks’s suppressed blast weaker than a full-power blast from Base Trunks?

How can one come to that conclusion?

 

[Six Trails]

[mention]GreatSaiyaman123[/mention] If Trunks’s base power greatly exceeded 18 he wouldn’t need to transform to shoot a Ki blast at her. The suit restricted their movements not their Ki.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Hm, that's a good point. Lemme reread that section so i can be sure of that.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

[mention]Six Trails[/mention] One could actually argue that Trunks didn't connect the dots about the disvantage of the getup until after he transformed (He transforms, says they're still at disvantage and only then suggests Ki blasts, instead of going straight to the point and saying "Let's go SSJ and blast her") but that seems... shaky tbh. Almost grasping at straws even. You're probably on point here, Michael.

Yeah, back to the good and old dilemma. Base Gohan > Piccolo > Goten, but SSJ Gohan >= SSJ Goten. Fuck the Boo Arc man.

 

[Six Trails]

Or Piccolo > Base Gohan.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Nah that's too convenient

I'll probably pull a a180 come back in a few days claiming that Trunks going SSJ to fire the blast was dumb writting. You will see.

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] why you think SSJ3 Gotenks is 4x SSJ Gotenks instead of 8x? Gotenks was actually shown as a SSJ2 for a brief second. I even find doubtful that you can achieve SSJ3 without being a SSJ2 prior.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Piccolo being close to CG Vegeta and Trunks (What i strongly disagree) and being weaker than Base Saiyans aren't polar opposites though. Goku and co. could be > 50% Goku in base by the Boo Arc, it's not like there's stuff contradicting that.

Even treating the costume as severely limiting, you'd be stretching it to argue it allows one's performance to go from #18 tier to 50% MSSJ Galu tier.

Does Super actually implies Shin has God Ki too though? Could it be the case that only the Hakaishins have God Ki. I think Goku even uses Shunkan Ido to teleport to Kibitoshin in the begining of the series a couple times.

It would line up well with nobody being able to sense Shin in the Boo Arc, as well as those of similar characters like Kibito and Dabura.

Iirc, Goku never used Shunkan Ido to get to the Kaioshinkai until the ToP or the Future Trunks Arc at the very earliest, by which point he'd already absorbed God Ki into his lower forms and trained with Whis, therefore not making him entirely alien to it. Being able to sense a Kaioshin by that point is entirely plausible.

@Captain Cadaver why you think SSJ3 Gotenks is 4x SSJ Gotenks instead of 8x? Gotenks was actually shown as a SSJ2 for a brief second. I even find doubtful that you can achieve SSJ3 without being a SSJ2 prior.

With a nerfed multiplier for SSJ, why not the same for his higher forms? His feats never necessarily warranted a 8x gap, especially with Elder Kaioshin implying Goku wasn't complete fodder during the Gotenks Boo VS Gohan segment. No need for overly bloated gaps.

 

[Ultimate Cell]

How could you forgot SS3 Kibito dude?

 

[SIAD]

How could you forgot SS3 Kibito dude?

It is not that he has forgotten, only that there are not enough numbers in a publication. There is a limit of characters.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If you go with SEG multipliers, why don't you go with the Goku X Vegeta formula?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That would lead to such an overly ridiculous bloat in numbers it's not even worth taking seriously.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Dragon Ball IS bloated though. I mean, look at how stupidly powerful Freeza was.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

No need to make it any bigger to the point battle powers lose their meaning when becoming an endless string of zeros.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why you think Yamcha has fallen behind so much compared to Tenshinhan and Kuririn?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

End of the Freeza Arc, basically. He didn't seem as though he made major gains between then and Trunks' arrival, at least not enough to catch up to Kuririn after the power ups he got on Namek or Tenshinhan who stayed on Kaio's planet an extra 130 days. If assuming they all made comparable gains from the 3 year training, it'd mean he wouldn't close that gap, not to mention him admitting he was the most useless guy on the battlefield after #20 gave him a chest examination and nobody arguing against it would suggest that the gap between he and the other two humans is still fairly notable. Whilst you could argue Kuririn had the Kienzan and Ten had the Kikoho, the Sokidan would still make a great support move and be even more useful against those who absorb Ki than Tenshithands' support if the three were indeed on near equal footing.