The Ultimate Power Level List

[Victorious]

Don't see how that suggests he far surpassed the power 17 used on him.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Base Gotenks power is directly tied to the Ssj2 and Ssj3 boost. You have to pick one. If you choose to keep Super Saiyan a 50x boost you have two options.

1) Make Base Gotenks strong and make Gotenks stupidly powerful over Goku

Or

2) Make Base Gotenks weak and keep Goku somewhat relevant to Gotenks (10x) or so.

It's all about concessions.

I think the fans would appreciate a stronger Goku and Gogeta over getting Base Gotenks perfect. Each character has a sentimental value and no one gives a fuck about Base Gotenks.

That's why i don't like the 50x. I go with the 10x from Androids and above (Except for the base boys) and everytime i can't fit with a 10x boost i low the multiplier. Though i actually have room to place SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku > Gotenks > SSJ2 Goku with the standard 10x SSJ.

Our interpretations about the rumors are different. You think it's someone who can beat up Trunks. I think the rumors are about Android's who Yardrat Goku with 3 years of training may not be capable of beating.

But Piccolo was actually doubtful if #20 was or not on the expected level, even though 20 wasn't a match for him, who in turn is not a match for Goku or Vegeta.

 

[p123]

Ah ok, read over the segment, I feel like I got it now...

I have Future 17 at 81% of Gohan. When Gohan tells 17 that he's gotten a lot stronger and that it's pay back time, 17 says something like oh, it's our time for us to get beat up?

Gohan is going to the battle with the intention to kill both the androids. To make this realistically possible, he should be over 17 by a fair margin. Androids should be 80-85% of him max to do so.

Let's not forget, Trunks gets a little bit stronger than Gohan was and goes out of his way to track the Androids down and goes to defeat them 2 on 1. So if Trunks thinks his little bit extra of strength is enough to get the job done, Gohan has to at least be in range of doing so...

Androids are 83% of Gohan.
Androids are 75% of Trunks

Think about it this way, it's like Vegeta taken on two Dodorias for Gohan's situation and for Trunks it's like Reecome taking on 2 Vegetas. How's that sound?

 

[p123]

Exactly GS. The Androids are in total, clearly strong enough to whoop Yardrat Goku's butt, or it wouldn't even be a discussion, but not so impressively that they definitely are the Androids, hence Piccolo questioning if they did become too strong.

If the Androids were only 1.33x Yardrat Goku, they wouldn't be considered this tremendous threat. Goku should be able to train up to that level without any issue in 3 years and with help, it should be a no brainer they will win. But that's not suggested at all. Androids are suggested to be like 2x Yardrat Goku, that's what they are expecting more or less, or possibly even more.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, that makes plenty of sense. Being able to whoop Goku and Trunks is halfway to being expected android level, thus why Piccolo says 20 is strong but still smells something is wrong. Stil prefer my logic, but i can easily adhere to this if gaps get too thight.

P what you think of this?
Vegeta 150
Goku 145
Trunks 140
Piccolo 125
20 post 112.5
19 post 100

Vegeta/19 gap gets perfect, but it feels kinda thight between Vegeta and Piccolo and makes Kamiccolo and the twins too strong...

 

[p123]

You have 20 at 90% of Piccolo. I think the gap is more like 83%. Piccolo really owns him.

Trunks feels a little too high. I prefer the gap between Trunks and Vegeta to be like this...

Trunks is 90% of Vegeta at Androids Saga.
Trunks is 93% of Vegeta Post RoSaT.
Trunks is 96% of Vegeta Post 2nd RoSaT.

But that's just personal preference.

Vegeta shits on Trunks a lot in the Androids Saga, but that could just be an attitude issue anyhow.

These are some tight ass gaps huh? This is what happens when you introduce 19/20 as the main villains, then change your mind mid way. It's bound to lead to some issues. I took the plunge and made 19 60% of Vegeta, which I don't like, but I find it necessary to keep things moderately spaced.

I rather like Piccolo being that close to Vegeta. It makes Kamiccolo a bigger deal. I think there's a whole big level between the Super Saiyans and Kamiccolo, most don't agree, but I like it. It gives respect to Kamiccolo and the Androids. 18 considers Vegeta powerless, Vegeta considers Cell an absurdly large ki and so on...


17 250
18 225
Cell 200
Vegeta 150

It seems big, but it's not too bad. 18 did tank Vegeta after all and considers him helpless, powerless. I like Kamiccolo being tremendously stronger than Vegeta. He deserves it! It only happens twice in the whole manga, so why not?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

20 at 90% of Piccolo feels nice. It looks like an Vegeta/Zarbon ass whooping, plus by Gero's own word, he and 19 lose power after being pummeled.

I don't like Trunks being that close to Vegeta either. 18 one shoting Trunks implies Vegeta is a good bit superior, though Tenshinhan still implies they're rivaling each other. Anything lower than 95% works IMO.

I don't really like Piccolo being that close to Vegeta because it makes SSJ a lesser deal. Piccolo being 75% of Vegeta is the perfect gap IMO.

Btw, i don't think Cell rivals Vegeta anymore... Hidding instead of taking Vegeta with his pants down was pretty retarded either way from Cell, doesn't matter the gap.

Kamiccolo: 250
Cyborg 17: 240
Weighted Kamiccolo: 225
Cyborg 18: 216
Imperfect Cell: 180

Just pulled those out. Was going with 245 and 200 for 17 and 18, but it seemed rather far from Weighted Kamiccolo.

 

[Victorious]

It definitely looks worse than handsome Zarbon vs Vegeta.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Don't really see a difference other than 20 getting weaker as the fights drags on. Both Zarbon and Gero were helpless, but Vegeta and Piccolo had to put some work for that.

 

[Victorious]

Piccolo's attacks were more much more damaging.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why?

 

[Victorious]

Because his gap is bigger on his opponent. Piccolo had Gero bouncing around like his personal punching ball.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The gap is bigger because 20 was worse and 20 was worse wrecked because 20 the gap was bigger? That's circular reasoning for you.

And Zarbon was also getting smacked around like a punching ball. 20 is somewhere between 83 to 90% of Piccolo IMO. Perhaps 80% at the lowest.

 

[Victorious]

Look how far Piccolo's hits send 20 flying around compared to Vegeta's hits to Zarbon. And also look how Zarbond rebounds compared to 20. Also Gero was held in.place and had his arm chopped off.

83% is ok but 90% is way too close.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, Vegeta/Zarbon seems closer. Zarbon can at least keep track of Vegeta, almost likr Goku on Cell. Gero gets blitzed hard everytime. It's still closer than Recoome/Vegeta though.

Damn, know im gonna have to low 19 to 60% of Vegeta... Either that or havr Piccolo rivaling Vegeta.

 

[p123]

Yea GS, if you compare both fights, (Piccolo > 20) > (Vegeta > Zarbon), it's not a huge difference, but it's notable.

Fuck this shit. I might go the Vic route and just put 19 > 20 to make this shit work. Damn you AT!

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Nah that's too far. I'd prefer run over the gaps than ignore the story.

 

[p123]

The story doesn't necessarily force 20 > 19. Both androids are referenced in both statements.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Both Androids were also on Vegeta's statement. Perhaps Vegeta and Piccolo have different POVs for what to expected of the droids?

 

[p123]

Sure. Or they could be the same. I don't think there is any definitive proof, although I'd lean towards 20.

Gogeta vs Gokan, who you got?