Ultimate Gohan (Boo) >= Goku Ssj3 (Boo)

[kriss-]

Incorrect.

You're putting words into my mouth in an attempt to create a logical fallacy as a means to make your opinion look more ideal. It's not.

The boys transform into Super Saiyans under pressure. So Gotenks would as well. Your viewpoint creates a paradox and therefore has no merit. The Metamoran is originally displayed as untested and unmastered; hence why they couldn't transform beforehand. After training -which was the entire purpose of entering in the first place, they could. Therefore my viewpoint correlates with the stories implications and the characteristic traits of the individuals involved whereas yours creates paradoxes, puts words into peoples mouths and tries desperately hard to make yourself look more credible when you really aren't.

However, that is your debating style. To make paradoxes out of peoples logic and put words into their mouth, even if it requires you to go so far as to ignore the story and those the story centers around.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Is Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan fairly close to Super Saiyan 2 Goku?

Because if he's not, guess that does away with the "Super Saiyan 3 Goku must be around Gohan's level" entirely.

 

[kriss-]

Gohan's SSj2 could easily be comparable to Goku's SSj, or they are close enough in battle power for the Metamoran to be relevant, whereas the people on Metamora weren't.

So no it doesn't, not really.

 

[Victorious]

I havent put words in your mouth but there is only two possibilities. You're just too dense and short sighted to understand the various logical consequences of your own theories, or too much of a chicken shit to admit them in order for your own premises to look better. But that BS doesn't last against Victorious without getting exposed. Kamicollo being totally ignorant of a fusion having the possibility to go from base to SSJ is the most reasonable explanation here. For if he isnt completely ignorant of the possibility, then he would know or suspect that with training they could go from base to SSJ. There's no middle ground here. But of course when it's shown in the RoSaT they can go SSJ out of base, he's completely surprised and i believe he says "I didnt know they could do that". So he definitely doesn't know it's even possible. So yeah, my theory...Simple ignorance, explains Kamicollo's first quote and why the boys didn't go SSJ against Fatso. They and Kamicollo were simply completely unaware they could. In fact the quote you provide only provides further evidence for me why they wouldn't even try against fatso and makes my view more reasonable. Because hell if Kamicollo is telling them to come back and re-fuse as SSJs before they try and take on Fatso, what does that tell them? That they can't and shouldnt even try. OF course They only learn they CAN with experimentation in the RoSaT. I havent seen any evidence it requires training aside from experimentation or just 'trying'. So yeah i believe they simply didn't try because from Kamicollo they had the preexisting idea they were stuck in base.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Gohan's SSj2 could easily be comparable to Goku's SSj, or they are close enough in battle power for the Metamoran to be relevant, whereas the people on Metamora weren't.

So no it doesn't, not really.

A huge assumption. Vegeta said they both surpassed Gohan after seeing that Goku acquired Super Saiyan 2. When looking at their overall power, Goku is so far beyond Vegeta and Gohan that it isn't even funny.

So no, Super Saiyan Goku isn't comparable to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. No one even says anything about his Super Saiyan to begin with. They're not comparable in power, nor is Super Saiyan 3 Goku comparable to Gohan.

 

[Clearin]

If you're going to make a thread from one of my posts, the least you could do is not copy/paste my own writing while presenting it as your own.

http://dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3865&p=93483#p93483

 

[kriss-]

They didn't surpass Kid Gohan to a huge degree.

We're discussing Teen Gohan SSj2 being comparable to Goku SSj, which would actually make sense. They are comparable in power, like Goku Ssj3 is comparable to Gohan.

Facts:

a) They need to be close in power, at some level, before undergoing the Metamoran ritual.
b) Suppression alone doesn't work and is contradicted by Goku not being able to fuse with people on Planet Metamor.
c) Once their battle power is comparable, the stronger fighter needs to use suppression to match the other fighters Chi exactly to perform the dance.
d) The product of the sum is born.

 

[Victorious]

Well we don't know how strong Metamorians are. They could be Saibaman level.

 

[kriss-]

Doesn't matter.

Two powers need to be close in power, at some level, to be considered compatible for the ritual. Suppression doesn't work. Then they match their power to fuse.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Kid Gohan isn't Teen Gohan.

Except it doesn't make sense. Look at the sequence of events: Vegeta says that they've both surpassed Teen Gohan after Goku revealed his Super Saiyan 2. There's not one statement on his Super Saiyan power being far better than before or anything. All of the emphasis was on his Super Saiyan 2. With that:

Super Saiyan 2 Goku>Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan
Super Saiyan Goku>Super Saiyan Teen Gohan
Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan>Super Saiyan Goku

Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan was around Dabra's level
Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2 Goku or Vegeta would punk Dabra because he's that much of a weakling compared to them

Therefore, Goku and Gohan are not close in power. Also, Goku and Vegeta have no similarity in body size whatsoever, yet he still wanted to try and merge with him inside of Boo. None of this stuff is all that clear cut, honestly.

 

[Victorious]

Yeah and "to some degree" is a lot of room if Metamorians are Saibaman level.

 

[kriss-]

Goku cannot undergo fusion with Piccolo, whose probably over 1 billion by this point.

So no, it's not a-lot of room.

 

[Victorious]

We know Ultimate Gohan can trash SSJ3 Goku. Goku said he'd be killed instantly by Super Buu and Ultimate Gohan can demolish Super Buu.

 

[kriss-]

Please stay on topic and take your dick out of Gohan's ass.

 

[Victorious]

Goku cannot undergo fusion with Piccolo, whose probably over 1 billion by this point.

So no, it's not a-lot of room.

Where does he say he can't fuse with Piccolo ?

 

[kriss-]

Goku cannot undergo fusion with Piccolo, whose probably over 1 billion by this point.

So no, it's not a-lot of room.

Where does he say he can't fuse with Piccolo ?

When Goku said he could have used fusion with Vegeta or Gohan, Piccolo is not included in the statement or a possible fusing partner.

And like Herms' translation about Cell -whom implied that there was another besides Vegeta & Trunks holding their own against the Cell Juniors, there is no metaphorical implication that suggests Piccolo was an alternative option.

Class dismissed.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Goku being willing to merge permanently against someone Gohan trashed pretty much says it all.

If Goku was comparable to Gohan, he wouldn't have told Vegeta their only chance at beating Boo without fusion would be if they're able to successfully bring him down to Fat Boo.

Goku later states he could've beaten Fat Boo with Super Saiyan 3. It makes sense.

 

[kriss-]

Goku didn't wish to use SSj3 and there were other alternatives to defeating Boo that didn't involve it.

 

[Six Trails]

Piccolo is far taller than Goku.

 

[kriss-]

Vegeta was considered an option and the difference between him and Goku is the same, or more than the difference between Piccolo and Goku.