Ultimate Gohan (Boo) >= Goku Ssj3 (Boo)

[Evil Vegeta]

Better alternatives don't make much sense if he was already capable of beating Super Boo himself. The potara was a better alternative than fighting Kid Boo alone, but he was still willing to use Super Saiyan 3 there. Goku didn't want to use Super Saiyan 3 against Super Boo because it wasn't strong enough to make a difference.

This goes back to Goku wanting to revert Gohan Boo all the way down to Fat Boo before fighting.

 

[ahill1]

Is Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan fairly close to Super Saiyan 2 Goku?

Because if he's not, guess that does away with the "Super Saiyan 3 Goku must be around Gohan's level" entirely.

I was about to say that.

 

[kriss-]

It's implied when he runs away from Boo to try and find an alternative solution to defeating him that doesn't involve SSj3. Fusion, merging and the younger generation were all still viable options. Goku being adamant about using SSj3 is a fact.

Goku didn't intend to use SSj3 against Boo until Vegeta wanted to see it. Goku asks if it's okay because Vegeta might not get a turn.

 

[Six Trails]

Vegeta was considered an option and the difference between him and Goku is the same, or more than the difference between Piccolo and Goku.

No, it's not. According to the Super Exciting Guide:

Son Goku
Height: 175 cm (adult)

Vegeta
Height: 164 cm

Piccolo
Height: 226 cm (adult)

Goku is only 11 cm taller than Vegeta, while Piccolo is 51 cm taller than Goku. Even ignoring that, you can clearly see in this picture that Goku doesn't even reach Piccolo's shoulders while Vegeta is over Goku's shoulders.

 

[kriss-]

No, it's not. According to the Super Exciting Guide:

Son Goku
Height: 175 cm (adult)

Vegeta
Height: 164 cm

Piccolo
Height: 226 cm (adult)

Goku is only 11 cm taller than Vegeta, while Piccolo is 51 cm taller than Goku. Even ignoring that, you can clearly see in this picture that Goku doesn't even reach Piccolo's shoulders while Vegeta is over Goku's shoulders.

I don't follow that bullshit, nor do I follow the Daizenshuu anymore.

Heights change all the time.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The younger generation was unconscious inside of Boo, Goku was annoyed that Vegeta destroyed the potara, and Vegeta made it clear that fusion was not taking place. If Goku didn't use Super Saiyan 3, he would've been on his way back to the Otherworld. If Goku did use Super Saiyan 3, he still would've been on his way back to the Otherworld. What you're basically saying is Goku would've let Vegeta get erased from existence because he was upholding some "honorable" code of not using Super Saiyan 3.

So the idea of Goku 100% needing Vegeta's permission doesn't fly. Nevermind the fact that he smirked and replied with "Are you sure? You might not get a turn.", which clearly shows how serious that exchange was. He never needed Vegeta's permission to do jack.

 

[Victorious]

Goku cannot undergo fusion with Piccolo, whose probably over 1 billion by this point.

So no, it's not a-lot of room.

Where does he say he can't fuse with Piccolo ?

When Goku said he could have used fusion with Vegeta or Gohan, Piccolo is not included in the statement or a possible fusing partner.

And like Herms' translation about Cell -whom implied that there was another besides Vegeta & Trunks holding their own against the Cell Juniors, there is no metaphorical implication that suggests Piccolo was an alternative option.

Class dismissed.

When did Goku say that? Goku could have beaten Fat Buu without fusing.

 

[kriss-]

6. Fusion [#BO2#FUS]
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Oh so it includes the afterlife as well.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Just checked and Goku said he'd have to go all-out or the universe is finished before Vegeta says he wants to see Super Saiyan 3 with his own eyes.

So Goku was intending on transforming before Vegeta made it clear that he wanted to see it.

 

[Victorious]

Vegeta was considered an option and the difference between him and Goku is the same, or more than the difference between Piccolo and Goku.

No, it's not. According to the Super Exciting Guide:

Son Goku
Height: 175 cm (adult)

Vegeta
Height: 164 cm

Piccolo
Height: 226 cm (adult)

Goku is only 11 cm taller than Vegeta, while Piccolo is 51 cm taller than Goku. Even ignoring that, you can clearly see in this picture that Goku doesn't even reach Piccolo's shoulders while Vegeta is over Goku's shoulders.

Haha, Tosh owned.

 

[kriss-]

Goku asks him if it's alright if he uses the transformation after Vegeta says he wishes to see SSj3 with his own eyes. He was planning on using SSj2.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Goku says if he doesn't go all-out, the entire universe would be history. After he says that is when Vegeta says he wants to see it. If Goku said he was going to fight seriously from the jump, he's referring to Super Saiyan 3 because anything less is an obvious lie. His little "is that okay?" reply to Vegeta means nothing.

 

[kriss-]

Vegeta was considered an option and the difference between him and Goku is the same, or more than the difference between Piccolo and Goku.

No, it's not. According to the Super Exciting Guide:

Son Goku
Height: 175 cm (adult)

Vegeta
Height: 164 cm

Piccolo
Height: 226 cm (adult)

Goku is only 11 cm taller than Vegeta, while Piccolo is 51 cm taller than Goku. Even ignoring that, you can clearly see in this picture that Goku doesn't even reach Piccolo's shoulders while Vegeta is over Goku's shoulders.

Haha, Tosh owned.

No not at all.

King Cold is enormous in comparison to Freeza in some scans, in others, he's much smaller. Character heights aren't absolute, they're fallible.

I also don't follow that particular guide. It says SSj3 brings a user to their limits when Toriyama recently said SSj3 is simply a forced increase of Super Saiyan.

So if you had any brains and were a true debater of the series, you'd recognize the fault in following those ancient guidebooks as well.

 

[kriss-]

Goku says if he doesn't go all-out, the entire universe would be history. After he says that is when Vegeta says he wants to see it. If Goku said he was going to fight seriously from the jump, he's referring to Super Saiyan 3 because anything less is an obvious lie. His little "is that okay?" reply to Vegeta means nothing.

a) Goku says he should go all out.
b) Vegeta says he wishes to see Ssj3 with his own eyes.
c) Goku asks if it's alright because he might not get a turn.

Conclusion: Goku didn't intend on using SSj3 because Vegeta wouldn't get a turn.

 

[Victorious]

6. Fusion [#BO2#FUS]
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Oh so it includes the afterlife as well.

Haha, this debunks your argument . Goku can Metamorian fuse with Vegeta, but we knowVegeta is not close to Goku and Gohan is not close to Goku either. So why later does Goku have to be close Ultimate Gohan? Makes no sense.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”
Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn."

Goku was obviously going to fight seriously from the jump considering he would've gotten killed as a Super Saiyan 2. That assertion obviously makes no sense because Super Saiyan 2 isn't him fighting seriously.

 

[kriss-]

Haha, this debunks your argument . Goku can Metamorian fuse with Vegeta, but we knowVegeta is not close to Goku and Gohan is not close to Goku either. So why later does Goku have to be close Ultimate Gohan? Makes no sense.

Vegeta was a Majin, he's equal to Goku Ssj2.
Gohan could turn SSj2 and be equal to Goku Ssj.
Goku could turn SSj3 and be equal to Gohan.

Suppression itself doesn't work.

 

[kriss-]

Goku was obviously going to fight seriously from the jump considering he would've gotten killed as a Super Saiyan 2. That assertion obviously makes no sense because Super Saiyan 2 isn't him fighting seriously.

Vegeta says 'let me', so he's instructing Goku. Goku fulfills his request with some reluctancy.

 

[Victorious]

Haha, this debunks your argument . Goku can Metamorian fuse with Vegeta, but we knowVegeta is not close to Goku and Gohan is not close to Goku either. So why later does Goku have to be close Ultimate Gohan? Makes no sense.

Vegeta was a Majin, he's equal to Goku Ssj2.
Gohan could turn SSj2 and be equal to Goku Ssj.
Goku could turn SSj3 and be equal to Gohan.

Suppression itself doesn't work.

Goku's true power is SSJ3, not SSJ2. So if Goku stays at SSJ2 and suppresses himself down to SSJ2 to merge with Vegeta then Ultimate Gohan can suppress himself down merge with Goku. Also if you think an SSJ and SSJ2 can merge, there's no reason a base like Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Goku can't merge, via your own reasoning. Your "supppression doesnt work" argument is purely made up.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

He's telling him that he wants to see it with his own eyes. Vegeta has no control over whether Goku uses the form or not. He can't make him do anything.

Goku fought Kid Boo and Vegeta realized that Goku was trying to prolong the fight because he never had any intention to switch with Vegeta. This is made perfectly clear when Goku warns Vegeta to not killed when Vegeta tries to give him time to build his energy. Goku never planned on using Super Saiyan 2 because he would've gotten pulverized, and he never planned to switch with Vegeta because he knew Vegeta wouldn't have been strong enough to handle Kid Boo. All of this stuff is stated.