Ultimate Gohan (Boo) >= Goku Ssj3 (Boo)

[Victorious]

It is consistent.

As long as the level they are currently at is comparable, they can consider merging. Suppression is only viable after the two are close in battle power.

Goku Ssj CANNOT fuse with Piccolo.
Goku Ssj can fuse with Gohan SSj2.
Goku Ssj2 can fuse with Majin Vegeta SSj2.
Goku SSj2 can fuse with Z-Sword Gohan SSj2.
Goku SSj3 can fuse with Ultimate Gohan.

So because suppression is contradicted by Goku's statement, than the only logical determination is levels. Their levels have to be similar in power before being perfectly the same and doing the dance.

Ohh so now it's an arbitrarty "level they're currently at" and not their max levels that needs to be close? Good! Well i think Ultimate Gohan can just go down to some arbitrary level he chooses to be at and become close to and merge with SSJ3 Goku. His max level difference means very little, so long as it's closer than SSJ3 Goku and a Metamorian. That's the only rule you've shown.

Ohh so now it's an arbitrarty "level they're currently at" and not their max levels that needs to be close? Good! Well i think Ultimate Gohan can just go down to some arbitrary level he chooses to be at and become close to and merge with SSJ3 Goku. His max level difference means very little, so long as it's closer than SSJ3 Goku and a Metamorian. That's the only rule you've shown.

Suppression is debunked from the example Goku gave about being inable to do it in the other-world. Get? Got it? Good! Now that suppression is taken out of the equation.

Their battle powers need to be close before they are capable of considering fusion.

This is different than their battle powers being completely the same while performing fusion.

Nope it's not debunked because we don't know how powerful the fighters were in the other world, nor their body size. (Not to mention not fighting at you maximum potential in your most powerful form is the same thing as suppression).I think Metamorians are as powerful as Saibamen. The Gohan > Goku gap just needs to be smaller than the Goku> Metamorian gap.This is just another pathetic Tosh fail, LULZ.

 

[kriss-]

They need to be close in power before being compatible with the ritual.

Goku couldn't practice it because there was nobody close in power to him in the afterlife.

So we're back to where we started and Goku needs to use Ssj3 to be compatible with Gohan.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Dabra to Goku and Vegeta=Trash
Dabra to Gohan=A tough opponent

Gohan Vs Dabra=The meter barely moves
Goku Vs Vegeta=The meter moves hella fast

Goku says he could've merged with Vegeta or Gohan, yet Gohan isn't fairly close to Goku at all. Goku wants to merge with Vegeta, but their body types are noticeably different from one another. The rules to using fusion are murky enough as it is. The only ones in the series who've merged successfully were roughly equal in power and size. That is all.

 

[Victorious]

And they get close by suppression. And yes Goku fighting at SSJ to merge with SSJ2 teen Gohan when Goku is capable putting out SSJ3 powers that can handle Fat Buu is "supppression". No different in principle than Ultimate Gohan lowering himself multifold to merge with SSJ3 Goku. For the record my view has always been that to metamorian fuse the Saiyans need to be in the same form when performing the ritual. I'm just poking fun at the incoherence and special pleading/double standards of another ridiculous "Tosh theory".

 

[Victorious]

Goku said no one in the afterlife was on par, meaning equal.

 

[kriss-]

Goku: are fairly close in both power and body size

So they need to be fairly close in power to be compatible for the ritual, not necessarily the same strength.

Suppression doesn't work as a means to make the two parts compatible.

 

[kriss-]

And they get close by suppression. And yes Goku fighting at SSJ to merge with SSJ2 teen Gohan when Goku is capable putting out SSJ3 powers that can handle Fat Buu is "supppression". No different in principle than Ultimate Gohan lowering himself multifold to merge with SSJ3 Goku. For the record my view has always been that to metamorian fuse the Saiyans need to be in the same form when performing the ritual. I'm just poking fun at the incoherence and special pleading/double standards of another ridiculous "Tosh theory".

Incorrect.

Suppression didn't work for the people of the afterlife.

 

[Victorious]

That's never stated suppression never worked, stop making things up. Goku said no one was on par with him, which is why he never tested it out.

 

[kriss-]

Goku: are fairly close in both power
Goku: Nobody on par with me

He's saying that nobody was fairly close in power to him.

Suppression doesn't work.

This is all stated.

 

[Victorious]

"nobody on par with me so i never tested it out" means everyone was a vast weakling to me so it's pointless to try. Nowhere does Goku say that "supppression don't work". Sorry but you fail again.

 

[kriss-]

"nobody on par with me so i never tested it out" means everyone was a vast weakling to me so it's pointless to try. Nowhere does Goku say that "supppression don't work".

It can only be performed if people are fairly close in battle power.

If Goku could suppress, he could suppress himself down to their level, but he cant because they need to be fairly close in battle power to begin with, or on par.

 

[Victorious]

"nobody on par with me so i never tested it out" means everyone was a vast weakling to me so it's pointless to try. Nowhere does Goku say that "supppression don't work".

It can only be performed if people are fairly close in battle power.

If Goku could suppress, he could suppress himself down to their level, but he cant because they need to be fairly close in battle power to begin with, or on par.

Maybe he could and he never tried.Nowhere in his statement does he say tried and failed. Just that no one was on par with him so he never tested it out. Same reason he didn't Porta merge with Dende or Satan.

 

[kriss-]

"nobody on par with me so i never tested it out" means everyone was a vast weakling to me so it's pointless to try. Nowhere does Goku say that "supppression don't work".

It can only be performed if people are fairly close in battle power.

If Goku could suppress, he could suppress himself down to their level, but he cant because they need to be fairly close in battle power to begin with, or on par.

Maybe he could and he never tried.Nowhere in his statement does he say tried and failed. Just that no one was on par with him so he never tested it out. Same reason he didn't Porta merge with Dende or Satan.

Goku states the principals that were required to be followed. They're absolute.

 

[Victorious]

It can only be performed if people are fairly close in battle power.

If Goku could suppress, he could suppress himself down to their level, but he cant because they need to be fairly close in battle power to begin with, or on par.

Maybe he could and he never tried.Nowhere in his statement does he say tried and failed. Just that no one was on par with him so he never tested it out. Same reason he didn't Porta merge with Dende or Satan.

Goku states the principals that were required to be followed. They're absolute.

The almighty Victorious, whom everybody thought was invincible has been defeated in a debate from t0sh.

Sure they're absolute
If Goku never tested something it means he never tried it. Sorry if i disregard your made up "non suppression rules" which are contractictory since you think Goku can suppress down to SSJ to merge with a SSJ2 Teen Gohan, this is no different than Ultimate Gohan hypothetically suppressing down multifold to fuse with SSJ3 Goku. There's no difference here. You'd only have some point if Goku specifically said he tried to suppress down low in the afterlife and it didnt work. But he just says no one was his equal, so he never tested fusion out. Reasonable. For instance Why would Goku try and fuse in the afterlife with weak people if it's possible the Fusion would become weaker than his normal self? The whole point of fusing is to create a super being far beyond your limits as an individual. And again we don't know how strong Metamorian folk are. We don't know if it's impossible for Goku to fuse with them or if he just chose not to. All we know for certain is they were not worth it.

 

[kriss-]

Victorious's debating style is very poor to say the least. If he cannot counter what someone is saying than he will try and ask for very specific details -that are never actually involved within the story, if it doesn't coincide with his beliefs, he will make up principals that go against what the characters tell us as a means to try and stalemate the person he's debating with. He also enjoys trying to create paradoxes. Once he believes that he has achieved this, he will determine that his theory is as valuable and holds as much weight as their own. For example:

a) Goku states that to perform fusion, characters need to be fairly close in power, but he also states that he's never tested it out because nobody was on par with him.

The conclusion here is that the powers need to be close, or on par with one another in order to perform fusion. Dende is sitting right there and knows about fusion. He doesn't contradict this statement. So it's a fact.

Whereas Victorious will argue:

b) Goku didn't try it out so that means he can suppress himself and still do fusion.

Well... this goes against what Goku said originally, and it goes against EVERYTHING we're told in the story. That characters need to be fairly close in power to even consider fusion.

At this point, it's a forgone conclusion that he's lost this debate.

 

[Victorious]

There's no paradox here, "Fairly close" unfortunately does seems to be rather subjective and broad, we've already seen that Goku Buu saga can merge with Vegeta or Teen Gohan but also Ultimate Gohan. But it's better to believe that then a far more absurd and special pleading case of Goku being able to suppresse himself down Super Saiyan forms to fuse with teen Gohan, but Ultimate Gohan not being able to suppress himself down to Goku later in the Buu saga. How is that coherent ? Reason and fairness prevails over Tosh BS.

 

[kriss-]

I'm going to throw this in to my Ultimate Gohan analysis once I make it. It's a pretty nifty point that some of the best minds on the forum couldn't counter. It definitely has merit.

 

[Victorious]

SSJ Gotenks pre RoSat > SSJ3 Goku proves this thread is BS.

 

[Clearin]

Suppression does work in the sense you can suppress to exactly match the other person, but it can't really be used for the "fairly close" part, since that requirement would be pointless if suppression was allowed to get "fairly close". What would they do, suppress themselves to be in the same league of power, and then when performing the dance suppress to their exact power? It's pointless to have both requirements if suppression solves both of them.

The only problem is we don't know what counts as "fairly close".

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo was not compatible with Goku, so that gives us a starting point. Also, let's not forget about the merge between Kibito & Kaioshin. It yielded results that were far less than 10x the power of Kaioshin.

The Metamoran multiplier is even below that.