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We need to do an English dub scale lol.

Base Goku RoF >~70%(non-buff) 4th form Freeza RoF ÷ 158 >> Ultimate Gohan(Z-RoF) Z Vegetto: ~SSJ3(hypothetical): 100,000,000 ~SSJ: 12,500,000 ~Base: 250,000 Buuhan: 225,000 Buutenks: 200,000 Ultimate Gohan: 150,000 Base Goku RoF(minimum): 100,000,000 Freeza RoF(minimum): ~70% 4th Form...

Remember that in Z whenever a ki attack boosted someone's power it was always said that the person's battle power increased, as if the ki blast itself was not considered as a separate thing.

Reductio ad absurdum. Any time they improve their base power with training they have "powered up without transforming" as well. Pretty convenient that Vegeta supposedly has the same form and no one talks about it. But then we wouldn't be arguing about it now. Gotta drive fan engagement.

It could go either way based on the dialogue. 1. He wasn't satisfied with simply a new transformation and increased his base power. 2. He wasn't satisfied with the power increase of the transformation and found a way to increase the amplification factor. I think we need more than that...

Who cares how the forms between characters compare? SSJ2 Vegeta was dominating SSJ Goku Black whose base was already stronger than full power SSJ2 Trunks. So there is not parity between different Saiyans and their forms' power levels.

Not necessarily that they can't, but at least that they haven't. Perhaps he wanted to show that he had SSJ2 at all.

Why shouldn't he be able to do that? Goku and Gohan could suppress to base form "ordinary, everyday levels" as Super Saiyans.

It's said hybrids have tremendous potential. Manga Trunks' SSJ2 is probably Toyotaro's interpretation of a bullet point in Toriyama's draft about Trunks getting a power-up like how Toei gave him Super Saiyan Rage.

It was said SSJ2 Trunks initially has a slight edge over SSJ2 Goku and then powered up "nearly as much as Goku in Super Saiyan 3" so SSJ3 Goku had a slight edge over powered-up SSJ2 Trunks. That means Trunks should get less than 4x stronger whether it was a powered-up SSJ2 form or he was...

The odd thing with this reasoning is what if Kami was stronger than Piccolo when they fused? Would Piccolo still get 2x stronger? Or is it only that host body gets 2x stronger? Good to know your reasoning though. I remember years ago people complained to me when I put pre-Nail Piccolo at like...

It's possible Trunks was just suppressed as normal SSJ2 though.

Argumentum ad populum. I just want to know if there is any possible evidence aside from references to Piccolo and Kami's fusion.

Can you justify that without referring to Grand Elder's or Nail's comments about Piccolo's fusion with Kami?

The numbers are actually higher than the numbers you see. For example you're supposed to multiply based on the symbol under the powers. For example the two "mountains" mean multiply by 100, so 2nd form Freeza is 1.2 million at full power, 3rd form Freeza is 1.5 million, and what looks like 3rd...

The real Freeza battle levels heheh.

I think Vegeta wouldn't even if he could. It's just like with Grade 3.

I think it's clear SSJ3 is a special case. I think Vegeta intended to rely on boosting his base power enough to surpass Goku regardless.

If you want to deliberately scale them low you could treat them like the Richter scale where each higher number represents more than a linear increase. Personally I like justified levels, and the minimalist and wanked scales are near equally unjustified.

Another counter: A Cell Jr caught and deflected a Final Flash from Vegeta. Though it wasn't charged as long as the first one, it should still be stronger than the first Final Flash at a base level.