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It's just a theory, no evidence the villains helped?

Yeah, I feel like we don't see Cell and Broly in M12 probably due to respect for their characters, but perhaps they've been given extra special jail places that can't be broken?

When Goku goes to visit Cell, their energies are read. Krillen, Roshi, and Yamcha all are talking about their power, they seem to conclude the following. Resting SSJ Goku = Base Perfect Cell We already knew this because Warm Up Goku fought Cell without powering up, he had to power up to reach...

This is a great thread. I agree with @GreatSaiyaman123 overall here. SSJ Broly M10 = LSSJ Broly M8 The Z team are all comparable to Super Vegeta, no one is greatly superior to each other. Broly vs Goku/Pikkon in Hell is interesting. Considering the same people who make the movies explicitly...

I think Toriyama keeps Piccolo and Gohan relatively the same power as he did in RoF and I think he probably still only has them as Blue. I don't think Toriyama cares too much about the anime or manga interpretations, not enough for him to be forced to accept their narratives.

Goku isn't necessarily thinking of a set multiplier, he just knows that a fully trained Gohan, brought to his max, unleashing all of his rage, should be an unstoppable power. He was right. When Gohan is trained and enraged, there's not one power in the entire universe that can beat him.

No, the no-SSJ rule was created to help not cause uproar. It should apply to all future tournaments so long as it's not needed. Considering Goku nearly matched Kid Buu's power, it appears it wasn't needed. Notice how Goten does not use Super Saiyan, despite being outmatched?

When he tells Hercule that neither he, Vegeta, or Majin Buu may win this time. They seem to be fighting in Base only, how can Goku and Vegeta expect to win against Majin Buu if they aren't at least as strong as him?

Well Grade 2 would be surpassing Super Saiyan. I am arguing for Gohan to be relevant to Goku, so that would mean in the same forms.

I don't think he's touching CG Goku quite yet, I think he still needs more time. How many years later is it from when he runs into Shin? Does Trunks have to equal Gohan to lift the sword? Is Gohan the lowest possible character to be able to do it?

No, I think Mr. Buu is the same exact power as he was during the Kid Buu Saga. When Buff Buu is deforming, I believe Good Buu is somehow responsible and reabsorbs South Kaioshin's essence into his being, bringing back his former power as Fat Buu. Head canon no doubt, but that power must have...

Well we know Future Trunks vs Imperfect Cell is beyond Android 18, since the Pre-Rosat boys equal Android 18 and the Post Rosat Boys surpass her. This version of Future Trunks is even beyond the Post Rosat Kids, plus he literally kiais Imperfect Cell out of the city, that's a legit feat there...

This is a great battle, I have Future Base Trunks here equal with RoF Piccolo and just a little behind RoF Base Gohan. CG Goku 500 RoF Gohan 450 RoF Piccolo 400 Future Trunks (vs Imperfect Cell) 400 Buu Piccolo 375 CG Piccolo 350 Future Trunks CG 300

Right when Goku first transforms into the Grade forms he says this about Gohan... ---Super Saiyan--- [#CE2#GOH#SSJ] Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P5.5 Goku: “Whoa! When did he get so [good]…He might become really incredible!” Has Gohan caught up to his father at this point? Is he rivaling him or...

No, as we can see, Goku is expecting Uub to reach the level of power that Kid Buu achieved. Goku seems to imply he's on Mr. Buu's level, and that a level reaching Kid Buu's level could defeat him. Kid Buu = Uub (Full Power) 100 Uub 80 Goku 75 Mr. Buu 75 Goku has grown insanely powerful, his...

The gap is larger than my peers are suggesting here. Teen Gohan initially thinks he can defeat a Goku and Vegeta who surpass Goku at the CG, he believes he'd still have an edge on them. This wouldn't be possible if Teen Gohan is all that close to CG Goku. That's the part everyone is missing...

If he's weaker, he's not as bad as a monster. If he's stronger, he's an even badder monster then before. It goes against the stated material that suggest they are equals. Irrelevant. The series always works this way. Using future characters and measuring previous characters. Gohan's statement...

Yeah, LSSJ Broly M8 has to be above SSJ Goku Buu Saga.

Ah yes, in my head, the humans are like 1-5 power level, of course. 150 should be perfect to put him right under Yamcha. I agree.

Yeah, Broly is just way too strong in M8. LSSJ Broly is MSSJ tier while the Z team is Super Vegeta tier. It's an absurd gap.