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That's what I'm trying to figure out. We are trying to figure out what Gohan's true regular power is. That's what Oozaru seems to be based on. Hmmm... It's hard to put Gohan too high, but it seems he has to be. At minimum he's 150, at max, I want to say 300. I think that's a good safe range...

Yeah I’m trying to prove Oozaru Gohan is less than 4,000.

So where do you place regular Gohan then? Should he be above Kami?

Vegeta Arc Gohan is in a much better state than Raditz Arc Gohan. Less control isn't a positive here. Piccolo trains Gohan to be able to control that power. This is a progression of the character's power in all ways, including Oozaru. Where is this number from?

Not necessarily his emotions. He loses his mind essentially. Enraged Gohan is still Gohan, in body and mind. Oozaru Gohan is like a whole different person. He loses his mind. They are not the same. Then Gohan could always beat up Piccolo in training? I doubt it. Yeah, I gotta look at how beat...

You've had to rewrite the narrative to make the fallacious numbers work. It's definitely an approach, and it may be your personal preference to take that approach, but to think it's the only approach isn't fair. People who want to make the character statements work have a valid approach here...

This should be a reason why proportionally Gohan in the Vegeta arc has more power, not less, right? More control is good, right? That’s never been the argument. Factually speaking Oozaru Gohan scales way above Piccolo, but the idea that Gohan is proportionally stronger during the Raditz Arc...

That's what we are discussing now. I'm arguing that to be an enraged state, others are arguing against me.

Damn, this turned out to be a major topic. My goodness. This is some detailed stuff going on here. I'm watching the anime now, I'm up to Imperfect Cell, so when I do get to the Cell Games, I am going to read this thread thoroughly and see what I can come up with. I've always held the idea that...

I never said dozens of times. I'm sure Oozaru Gohan is beyond everything we see, including the Special Beam Cannon, but he ain't above Nappa and 5,000 and all of that. He's probably around 2,000 or so I'd say. That's probably fair.

Of course. But it's better to make up stuff to fit the narrative of the series then to make up stuff to try to make the numbers fit and dismiss the narrative.

No, Gohan is not naturally above his father and Piccolo. He's crying because he's emotional. His power changes with his emotions. His enraged power is beyond them, not his regular power. That doesn't happen until the CG. Why is he 10k? Gohan is 1k?

710 is not Gohan's regular power. That's his enraged power. Oozaru is based on Gohan's regular power, which is surely below Goku and Piccolo, as it's always been.

It was against Vegeta.

This is pure head canon though, there’s no evidence for it

It's gotta be massive. He can finger flick Ssj3 Goku I'd imagine. I never truly scaled it though.

He probably kept his mutated Ssj2.

"So that's why your Kamehameha wasn't all that great." "You can't escape using that sort of Kamehameha you did before!" Just watching the Sub now, bro, these quotes are tame. This is no big deal. It's the cells used from Goku from the Vegeta Arc, it has nothing to do with Kaioken or anything...

How does that somehow mean the scouters don't work as intended between a certain amount of power?

Cell is the best villain. The events that occur leading up to Cell are just amazing. We have Kami unwilling to fuse with Piccolo, but this great threat changes his mind. Piccolo, now fused with Kami, leaves the Lookout looking like a straight up super-hero and we encounter the most grotesque...