Freeza Saga ~ Android Saga

[Power Level Guy]

Yep

 

[ahill1]

Hey Jabroni p123, the fights aren't that different. You must have read the manga like 10 years ago and are only going by your memory which is more forgetful than mine when I get piss drunk.

I've already shown all the speed feats Freeza had and asked you to clarify why they were speed feats that were clearly beyond what Goku had shown vs Cell... Why you didn't mention any speed feat and just went on to repeat the same stuff? At least be objective and use the manga, don't run away from debating the topics. Your tactics aren't gonna work, if you're a power level guy, you should know analysing fights better than that.

I've pretty much described how the two fights went on, but you didn't try to contest how my interpretation of one's superiority not being meaningfully different from the other fails picking examples from both fights.

Anyways, when both Goku and Freeza went to the h2h clash, which may depict the best moment of their fight to try comparing how close they were, Freeza got in 3 shots, and Goku got in 6 shots... Freeza's landed strikes didn't have much effect on Goku, Goku's ones though, clearly had a bigger effect, with Freeza showing, more visibly, that he was clearly hurt.

Btw, when each of them had landed 3 hits on each other, this is how they looked:

Even under the same strike #, Freeza was being way more affected by them. Then Goku landed a 3 hit combo and called it a day. Plus, I don't think Goku's comment means Freeza's power had started to drop for a while, it might very well be something noticeable only at the point Goku made that comment, as by then Freeza started showing clear signs of fatigue, like breathing heavily. His power might as well have started to drop quickly by then.

If you take the melee portion of Cell vs Goku, the one which comprised of them engaging in h2h battle, the # of hits each one got is pretty similar to. Counting the total of it, that is, when Goku used IT and kicked Cell, when Goku did the IT + KMHMH, then the number of significant strikes between Cell and Goku is pretty close — ofc, those weren't too valid moments as Goku caught Cell off guard there with the IT — therein comes Goku's skills... I don't see it being shown up anytime before that as a big game changer. Freeza never even trained much, logically his h2h skills should suck, but that wasn't the case. So there doesn't seem to be too much logic behind it.


When Cell showed Goku his speed — Cell got in a 4 hit combo, then Goku dodged the fifth one and got one hit, moved quick enough to try to get the second one, but Cell dodged... Then Cell moved quick enough to get one more solid hit and Goku dodged that... If anything, Goku was more capable of dodging Cell's attacks than Freeza was vs SSJ Goku... Whenever Goku wanted, he'd get in a shot, Freeza hadn't good dodging defensive reaction as Goku had vs Cell.

Then, after the IT KMHMH — to which, again, if anything, Goku had lost more power, as Cell said the same was valid for Goku, that is, that Goku also spent a lot of power... Plus, not only that, but Goku was out of breath, while Cell was not. Then, they got into h2h battle again, to which it can be seen both Goku and Cell getting a decent shot on each other's face, then Cell lands one more punch, to which Goku makes his final gamble in the battle by spamming all those chi blasts — since that forced Cell to put up a barrier, with Cell saying he was impressed, as he did not expect Goku to be so destructive... That counts as a significant strike as well...? So all in all, in a similar way as Goku vs Freeza, in the most significant, in terms of gauging one's superiority over the other, Cell landed 6 significant strikes and Goku landed 3... At which point Cell, much like Goku did vs Freeza, caught up on Goku's declining stamina...


Honestly, if anything, the fights are really not that much different... Imo ofc, but that's just how it is, I've read it yet again but there isn't much there showing one as clearly more dominant than the other.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Gish gallop

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Jabroni123 lol

 

[Power Level Guy]

 

[Power Level Guy]

This must be entertaining for some. Me over here going to absolute war for a percentage point or two lol. This reminds me of me cs Ghostfsce going to war over Trunks being either 88% or 90% of Vegeta in the Androids arc.

power levels is life!!! gotta be ready to die for it!

 

[Kyo]

It does matter though, if you deem that difference unimportant then you’re saying that these two fights are the same when they’re not.

 

[SSJ2]

The only part of the Goku vs Cell fight that matters is pre IT-KHH. Neither fighter was at full power after that so it's not relevant to their starting positions. The segment before it is about as one sided as it gets.

 

[Power Level Guy]

The only part of the Goku vs Cell fight that matters is pre IT-KHH. Neither fighter was at full power after that so it's not relevant to their starting positions. The segment before it is about as one sided as it gets.

Exactly

 

[Power Level Guy]

Can this work?

Kamiccolo 2,400
17 2,400
18 FP 2,250
18 1,750
Vegeta 1,600
Goku 1,500
Trunks 1,400
Piccolo 1,200

This might be golden ratio stuff...


Vegeta 100
Goku 93
Trunks 87.5
Piccolo 75

Damn, this is what I've always dreamed of. It's right there within reach.

And 18 > Vegeta by a decent amount during their fight works pretty good. Is 91% ok?

How does 18 vs Vegeta compare to Freeza vs Goku?

 

[ahill1]

Gish gallop

Well, I'll make it real short then:

When speaking about skills, that's likely in regards to techniques, like the IT + KMHMH combo, which is when Goku got the best attacks in the fight. In the part we agree that matters, the melee part of the fight, the # of significant strikes each superior fighter led to the inferior one was about the same.

@SSJ2

But like I said, if anything, the indication is that Goku lost even more power than Cell imo, as Cell stated "look who's talking" in response to Goku saying Cell spent a lot of energy (i.e, although not quantifying both losses as equal, there wasn't a separation either), and then added that Goku was out of breath himself. Cell wasn't out of breath. Still, they landed one shot each, then Cell got the last response with that punch. To which Goku responded with his final ditch effort, spamming all those chi blasts — which is tied to his power, not skills — which forced Cell to pull up the barrier, though at the expense of Goku making himself a one shot tool later.

Both noticed how they got weakened post the IT KMHMH, but Toriyama made a case to have Cell adding in one distinct factor — breathing heavily — which in that case contrasted with Cell, who was not. That to me is highlighting a difference in regards to stamina in the same exact instance, which I feel is important to imply that if anyone had lost more power from their starting point, it'd have been Goku... And Goku could still, with his last effort, force Cell to put up a barrier, with an attack that isn't dependant upon skills, it's the Vegeta's desperate signature of spamming chi blasts... That point in both fights, in which it's acknowledged one's stamina is dropping quickly (Freeza's and Goku's), one could even argue Goku made it look more impressive than Freeza did vs Goku... which, if Goku lost more power even post the IT KMHMH, would still be a testament to his own power level in comparison to Cell's.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Goku vs Cell Pre IT is further than Goku vs Cell Post IT, regardless of your poor interpretative abilities, that’s what the feats show.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Ahill has a point, but Cell not being winded probably has to do with the fact he was nowhere near FP. Plus

And 18 > Vegeta by a decent amount during their fight works pretty good. Is 91% ok?

18 said she was at full power jabroni. Just accept it’s 70% and go rework the gaps.

 

[ahill1]

Goku vs Cell Pre IT is further than Goku vs Cell Post IT, regardless of your poor interpretative abilities, that’s what the feats show.

I'm sorry you couldn't come with a counter for that... Try again.

 

[ahill1]

Ahill has a point, but Cell not being winded probably has to do with the fact he was nowhere near FP. Plus



18 said she was at full power jabroni. Just accept it’s 70% and go rework the gaps.

Cell was breathing heavily post Goku's chi blasts spam + barrier.

 

[Kyo]

Your mom was breathing heavy post me clapping those cheeks

 

[Power Level Guy]

Goku went from being not competitive to being competitive you are misreading the fight.

 

[Kyo]

Cell lost more power after the ITKHH but Goku was ultimately more winded by the end of their fight because he was giving his all and Cell wasn’t. This is very very easy.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Cell lost more power after the ITKHH but Goku was ultimately more winded by the end of their fight because he was giving his all and Cell wasn’t. This is very very easy.

Yeah man

 

[ahill1]

Your mom was breathing heavy post me clapping those cheeks

Your sister was... Heh I always bug when I try to come up with something to these things, irl too with my friends who use the your mom joke as my mind block me midway when I'd answer back jokingly too

Cell lost more power after the ITKHH but Goku was ultimately more winded by the end of their fight because he was giving his all and Cell wasn’t. This is very very easy.

Goku was more winded after the KMHMH already, not just at the end of the fight. Cell wasn't after the KMHMH, but was after the chi blasts last resort attack. Too easy, what's next?