Yoshi Reads Dragon Ball
- Thread starter Yoshi
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Dragonballs would disappear as well.
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Papasmurf said:
Why is the go-to explanation for you that AT forgot? Maybe there was a profound time in the manga where AT decided that Goku should avoid to kill if possible? Just because AT has forgotten lately doesn't mean that he forgot back when he wrote the manga.
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He's forgotten things like Dragon Balls taking a year to regenerate when he only made Goku and Krillin train for 8 months prior to the tournament. It just feels like very inorganic writing for Goku to trample an army full of people, then start to care for the lives of deranged villains without any real explanation besides puberty.
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Hey, puberty works!!!
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Saying "terrible writing" basically excludes you from all discussion and debates around the subject, a real debater finds an in-universe explanation for it.
For example, growing up makes you become more mature and adult. A perfectly good explanation as to why Goku was acting like a child and killing without thinking about the consequences, because... well he was a child.
He grew up and learned the value of human life from his masters (Kami and Popo in this case).
It's not terrible writing, it's just you that's too lazy to find one.
For example, growing up makes you become more mature and adult. A perfectly good explanation as to why Goku was acting like a child and killing without thinking about the consequences, because... well he was a child.
He grew up and learned the value of human life from his masters (Kami and Popo in this case).
It's not terrible writing, it's just you that's too lazy to find one.
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I do believe thats part of the reason, and probably the most plausible one, but the fact that no one calls Goku out on mass murder even when the RRA resurfaced later in the series tells me Toriyama never gave the issue of his morality much thought
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That's complete bullshit. A real debator uses the text to form and back up opinions. If there's a in universe reason as to why something happens, then it's fine. But in this case there isn't. You can suppose that it was kami's influence, but that's never stated.
Goku's attitude towards opponents completely changes, and there's never a real reason in the text given for why. And that's bad writing. Dragonball can be a completely inconsistent mess at times. There's no real reason to act like the internal consistency and writing can't be bad.
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Mr. Robot said:
Because Goku and the others find wanton killing to be morally reprehensible later. They let Vegeta walk after he had Nappa kill half their friends and slaughtered Namekians, and Goku was distraught about the killings of several equally-evil members of Freeza's army and let the fat Boo live simply for helping them defeat his evil half.
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Overall, I think what makes the argument that Goku's training with Kami made him more moral still seem baseless is that Goku was suggested to be morally just before the 23rd. He's still able to ride the Nimbus, and everyone including Karin state he's pure of heart. The story dictates he's moral before the 23rd Budokai, so it's still an inconsistency.
I'll read another volume right now.
I'll read another volume right now.
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Out of universe I think it's because Toriyama didn't make Goku's naivete a focal plot point until the Piccolo Daimao arc when Daimao mocked him for being so soft as to practically throw his fight when Tenshinhan was held hostage. Up until that point Goku getting duped so often was written off as him being clueless moreso than soft.
Just compare how Taopaipai's "death" didn't bother Goku one bit to how Goku literally gave Freeza like 3 chances to live and still felt bad about nearly killing him.
Just compare how Taopaipai's "death" didn't bother Goku one bit to how Goku literally gave Freeza like 3 chances to live and still felt bad about nearly killing him.
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I finished Volume 15.
The fights aren't really as disappointing as Kenshi makes them out to be outside of Goku VS Tenshinhan.
Tenshinhan VS Tao Pai Pai was pretty much Tenshinhan's only good fight in the series after the 22nd ended. Goku VS Chi Chi was cute. I liked that Krillin VS Piccolo Junior was kind of like Krillin's chance at fighting Piccolo Daimao and his forces after he got killed by Tambourine even though he lost against Piccolo Junior, and the fight itself was my favorite in the 23rd. Yamcha VS Shen was a surprise and I liked how Yamcha used his last technique against him at the end.
Goku VS Tenshinhan had the potential to be the best, but Tenshinhan was an idiot at the end. Splitting his power into fourths was retarded. I have high hopes for Piccolo Junior VS Shen.
The fights aren't really as disappointing as Kenshi makes them out to be outside of Goku VS Tenshinhan.
Tenshinhan VS Tao Pai Pai was pretty much Tenshinhan's only good fight in the series after the 22nd ended. Goku VS Chi Chi was cute. I liked that Krillin VS Piccolo Junior was kind of like Krillin's chance at fighting Piccolo Daimao and his forces after he got killed by Tambourine even though he lost against Piccolo Junior, and the fight itself was my favorite in the 23rd. Yamcha VS Shen was a surprise and I liked how Yamcha used his last technique against him at the end.
Goku VS Tenshinhan had the potential to be the best, but Tenshinhan was an idiot at the end. Splitting his power into fourths was retarded. I have high hopes for Piccolo Junior VS Shen.
