Gap MSSJ Goku/MSSJ Gohan at Cell Games

[Evil Vegeta]

In that case, why bother continuing to argue it? You always throw countless AT interviews at me in attempts to prove me wrong, only to try and make some other excuses when AT's own work gives another message. DBZ makes it clear what "surpassed" means. Gohan isn't above Goku because he can beat him in a race--he's above him because he's superior to him in every way sans fighting ability. That's the only thing Goku is better at.

"rekt". Been done pages ago. I saw that edit...

 

[kriss-]

Surpassed is the past tense of surpass.

It's nice to know that I've essentially countered every aspect from the argument that suggests Gohan HAS to be stronger then Goku, he doesn't. We've examined what... pretty much everything?

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Which means Gohan was already superior to Goku from the jump. The others just became aware of it when he flared his aura at full-power. Thank you.

You didn't actually counter anything. Goku said it, Cell agreed before seeing how fast Gohan was, Gohan didn't think Goku was all that strong, the chapter title says it. There's nothing implying Goku is Gohan's equal or better outside of your own opinion.

 

[kriss-]

It's a past tense reference to something that happened before, and it did happen before.

You've been rekt in every aspect of this debate, and if anything, it makes me feel more comfortable about whether or not Goku is actually closer to Gohan as one might think.

Now you're upset and won't give it up.

That's fine, it doesn't change all the counters I brought forward.

 

[Future Warrior]

Not to mention Gohan also taking no damage from Cell's hits

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Upset? Please don't give yourself so much credit.

You didn't debunk anything. You've resorted to changing the meaning of what "surpassed" means in DBZ to try and prove a point. That's not a counter. That's denial.

 

[kriss-]

Gohan took physical damage, but he didn't lose Ki. Nappa took damage from the Z-Fighters, but he took none from Goku. It proves nothing.

Besides, after that little skirmish, Cell wanted to keep fighting Goku, not Gohan. Despite all of this 'But Gohan is stated to be number 1', which is countered; 'The title chapter says he surpassed Goku', which was recently countered; 'Cell said Goku wasn't completely bluffing', which was countered; 'Gohan wasn't impressed with Goku', which was also countered.

:3 By Cell's own admission, Goku is more of a challenge then Gohan.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

And why did he want to continue fighting Goku? Because he thought his last attack killed Gohan.

Magnificent counter.

 

[kriss-]

And why did he want to continue fighting Goku? Because he thought his last attack killed Gohan.

Magnificent counter.

Gohan just proved that he's more durable then Cell thought, nothing more. Cell didn't retract his statement about wanting to fight Goku either.

So it's true until contradicted and the only time it actually is is when Gohan turned into a Super Saiyan 2.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Nope. You said Cell wanted to challenge Goku over Gohan even though Cell thought Gohan was down for the count.

There's nothing to retract. Gohan got back up, making the statement obsolete because Gohan wasn't damaged and still very capable of fighting.

 

[kriss-]

Cell used the terminology 'tough', which by definition; means durable.

rekt

 

[Six Trails]

Surpassed is the past tense of surpass.

Chapter: Chapter 89, P.14.7
Context: Goku leaves, and Master Karin says...
Karin: “It might be that this kid... has already surpassed Muten Roshi...”

Does this mean Goku surpassed Roshi in the past? No, it's referring to the Goku that just left Karin's tower.

Chapter: 211 (DBZ 17), P13.1
Context: after training under God
God: “You have all surpassed me now. There is nothing more I or Mr. Popo can teach you. Return to the lower world and refine your skills until the final confrontation.”

Does this mean the humans surpassed Kami in the past? No, the humans had just surpassed Kami.

Chapter: 274 (DBZ 80), P8.4-5
Jheese: “This is unexpected. Those little squirts' battle powers surpassed 10,000."
Recoom: “Hehhehhe, Gurd must have really gone pale. Just look, he's using his paralysis arts, which we hardly ever get to see.”

Does this mean that Gohan and Krillin surpassed 10,000 in the past? No, they just powered up to 10,000+ at that moment.


There are plenty of more examples. The title saying Gohan surpassed Goku is talking about when Gohan got on the battlefield to fight Cell. It has no reason to reference an event from the Saiyan saga that is completely irrelevant to the Cell Games. Also, no, you have not addressed everything. You have yet to address how Goku's statement isn't a complete bluff if Gohan isn't stronger than himself. You already lost on the very first page of this thread. Just give it up and stop arguing just for the sake of arguing.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

What does that have to do with anything? Gohan got back up, proving that Cell was wrong altogether.

 

[kriss-]

All of those scenarios take place in the past tense. They really change nothing.

 

[kriss-]

What does that have to do with anything? Gohan got back up, proving that Cell was wrong altogether.

He's more durable then Cell thought, this isn't synonymous with being more powerful.

You clearly don't understand basic english and choose to alter words to suit your bias.

 

[Six Trails]

All of those scenarios take place in the past tense. They really change nothing.

No, they don't. You didn't offer any counters and instead just dismissed my post by saying "they take place in the past tense" when I just explained how they don't. You also avoided explaining how Goku's statement isn't a complete bluff, yet again. As I already said, stop arguing for the sake or arguing and just admit to being wrong.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta: “It can’t be!! H-He's surpassed my battle power!!”

Right after Goku dominated him in Kaio-Ken x3, btw.

You're really twisting the point of the chapter title for no reason. It means Gohan>Goku.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

What does that have to do with anything? Gohan got back up, proving that Cell was wrong altogether.

He's more durable then Cell thought, this isn't synonymous with being more powerful.

Don't try to change the point. You said Cell challenged Goku to a rematch while conveniently ignoring that this was done because he thought Gohan wasn't getting back up. You were wrong.

You clearly don't understand basic english and choose to alter words to suit your bias.

Says the guy who can't understand that being surpassed means being weaker than the guy who surpassed you. Miss me with that other nonsense.

 

[kriss-]

Tough means durable and in no way reference Ki or strength. This is basic English. For your analogy to be true, Cell would have said 'You're stronger then I thought', no, he states 'You're tougher then I thought'.

Gohan and Kuririn surpassed 10,000 at some point and the Z-Fighters surpassed Kami at some point. They're all past tense references and you guys clearly aren't using the English language properly.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

What...are you talking about?

Seriously.

You said Cell wanting to fight Goku again meant Goku was above Gohan--ignoring the fact that he only challenged him because he thought the fight with Gohan was over. This has nothing to do with my inability to grasp English and everything to do with you missing the point of your own inaccurate rebuttal.