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They just wanted to see if Goku was becoming a Super Saiyan God. The only thing that was relevant was seeing if Goku's power was growing to the point where that may have been true. Vegetto doesn't count in this context.

It's obviously just in reference to Goku since the whole point is for Goku's power to grow from the ritual to beat Beerus. Vegetto is irrelevant to all of this.

This is a strawman. I never denied that power doesn't drop once a user's stamina reaches a certain point. I obviously agree with you considering I referenced the Gammas who did imply that people's power does drop. All I'm saying is that a user's power doesn't always drop when their stamina...

There are many counterexamples that go against you so I won't entertain it. But really, the point is that ki can drop way more than power does. You even agreed on this with me so why are you backpedaling here? And yes, Gohan can win assuming he can maintain full power long enough to beat Cell...

That would mean Gohan didn't need rage to enter Super Saiyan 2. What I'm saying is that once the kids lost fusion, they served no purpose whereas Piccolo did through his intelligence. Piccolo still remained useful in his own way hence why he came out the strongest. The statement you provided...

But then he transforms into Super Saiyan 2 which requires him to harness his full power i.e be enraged. There's no middle ground between being enraged and calm and there never was. For him to enter Super Saiyan 2, he would need to be enraged. No half-measures here. Piccolo could have easily...

Honestly, this is probably the best I can do. Goku 100 Vegeta 80 Gohan 60 Pui Pui 45 Expected Saiyans 35 Shin 30 Piccolo 21 Boys 16 Android 18 15 It does seem inevitable that the kids are drastically below the Adults but need to remain close to some degree given their interactions with...

That doesn't make sense. Gohan is either enraged or he's not. If he lost the rage boost, then he would've reverted back to a Super Saiyan but that's not what happened there.

Well yeah. You can't output more ki than whatever remaining amount of energy you have left. My main point was that there is a distinction between the amount of ki a fighter has and their battle power. A drop in the amount of ki you have does not guarantee a similar drop in power.

We're basically saying the same thing. Using a lot of energy or ki doesn't necessitate a drop in performance or at least the equivalent. Piccolo vs. Android 17 makes it very self-evident. Piccolo literally had to be gassed out from expending ki before a small gap began to appear between them...

And clearly they're using a lot of energy. They can just maintain their power before they start slowing down.

He was sweating profusely, muscles tensed, panting, and veins were popping over the course of the fight.

Exactly. Characters clearly exhaust energy without losing power. Did Piccolo lose power the moment he fought Android 17.

You literally make no sense. Every fighter has a specific amount of energy in their body but they only utilize a specific amount within a given timeframe. Think of it like this. Our total energy is the calories that we have in our body. When we exercise, we are expending energy i.e calories...

I might have to do more tinkering but maybe this could work? Goku 100 Vegeta 80 Gohan 60 Pui Pui 45 Expected Saiyans 30 Kaioshin 25 Piccolo 17 It's so awful because this legitimately means I have to have the kids over 4x weaker than Gohan. There has to be a better way.

This has nothing to do with hidden power. There's no denying that power is one representation of ki. The issue is that we're conflating ki output with a user's total ki and energy. Ki is a representation of both power and total energy but they are represented in different ways. The Z Senshi do...

@FeatsofPower Okay, there's no middle ground to establish here. It's obvious stamina and power is completely disconnected based on one of your posts prior. The thing you don't understand is that ki sensors only sense the ki currently emitted, not the total energy their body has. You're...

You didn't debunk anything. Ki sensing isn't going to detect drops in total reserves. It's only going to catch on to how much ki the fighter is currently emitting. That's why ki suppression negates sensing despite the user's overall reserves remaining intact. You don't immediately lose all of...

Also, interesting question. Realistically, they shouldn't be sensing their full ki as in their overall total reserves. Ki sensors only can detect ki that is generally outputted and power is contingent upon the amount of ki that is currently being surfaced. Suppressing your ki doesn't reduce your...

This is basically what I'm saying. I don't think power necessarily drops at the same rate as a user's energy does. There are multiple examples where that is not the case.